George Zimmerman trial

[ledboots]

Apparently my sarcasm was lost on you. The point was that my 'speculative version of events' held up side by side with 'the facts' as presented in the trial doesn't change anything. The outcome is the same: A young man is dead for no reason. This didn't have to happen. Had an armed, overzealous, insecure and bigoted neighborhood watcher simply made his phone call to report what he interpreted as suspicious behavior and leave it at that - we wouldn't be having this debate.

Bigoted? What evidence do we have that Zimmerman is bigoted?

 

[beancounter]

Of course not. Younger people and non-white people are also capable of white collar crimes. (Unless you think that white collar jobs are only the domain of older white males.)

Oh, come on. I think you're aware that I was basing that statement from the perspective of Zimmerman's logic, not my own.

This conversation must be pretty dull to read at GB, huh? Not many emotional outburst to make fun of over the past few days.

 

[beancounter]

I'm always going to value factual accuracy and correct mistakes when I see them (not every time, but here or there). You can be sarcastic about it if you like. I have to ask, though, if the accuracy of a statement like "He continued pursuit when LE told him to stay put" is irrelevant and doesn't change anything, then why make it in the first place?

I think an intersting question to explore is why he was following Martin.

No, I don't mean the "surface" motivation used to justify actions to others. "I saw a bad guy and I was being a good citizen".

But the deeply rooted motivations behind it.

 

[ledboots]

I think an intersting question to explore is why he was following Martin.

No, I don't mean the "surface" motivation used to justify actions to others. "I saw a bad guy and I was being a good citizen".

But the deeply rooted motivations behind it.

So no one else would get robbed in the neighborhood maybe? He also called the police to help once when he saw a small child wandering alone in the neighborhood. A black child. What do you think his motivation was then?

 

[beancounter]

So no one else would get robbed in the neighborhood maybe? He also called the police to help once when he saw a small child wandering alone in the neighborhood. A black child. What do you think his motivation was then?

But those are still surface motivations. Under that may be things like fantasizing about playing the hero, for example.

 

[Dedalus]

I have to ask, though, if the accuracy of a statement like "He continued pursuit when LE told him to stay put" is irrelevant and doesn't change anything, then why make it in the first place?

I believed it was fact when I wrote it, prior to your correction.

 

[Dedalus]

Bigoted? What evidence do we have that Zimmerman is bigoted?

That is my opinion. I can't prove that GZ is insecure or overzealous either. But I believe that as well.

 

[das_nut]

I think an intersting question to explore is why he was following Martin.

Would it also be an interesting question to explore why Martin took the actions he did?

But those are still surface motivations. Under that may be things like fantasizing about playing the hero, for example.

Maybe he was afraid of the next home invasion would result in the homeowner ending up dead.

We can play the "maybe" game all day, and it's really useful if we're trying to demonize one party or another.

I find it rather fascinating (and more than a little disturbing) about how many people seem to feel that they know what happened, and damn the evidence, Zimmerman is guilty.

 

[Dedalus]

If George Zimmerman's story is mostly correct, and he was attacked by Martin, do you still feel justified in blaming him for the events of the evening?

Mostly correct? You mean except for that part where GZ initiated the conflict?

 

[beancounter]

Would it also be an interesting question to explore why Martin took the actions he did?

We can play the "maybe" game all day, and it's really useful if we're trying to demonize one party or another.

I find it rather fascinating (and more than a little disturbing) about how many people seem to feel that they know what happened, and damn the evidence, Zimmerman is guilty.

I have already speculated on TM's motivations earlier in the thread.
Without all of the facts, speculation is the only option. Remember, the available facts, do not cover every minute of the incident.

 

[ledboots]

Mostly correct? You mean except for that part where GZ initiated the conflict?

Why would he call the police first and then attack?

 

[Dedalus]

Why would he call the police first and then attack?

You're asking me? From 911 transcript: "These assholes they always get away."

 

[das_nut]

Mostly correct? You mean except for that part where GZ initiated the conflict?

I was referring to the time needed for Zimmerman to find the address on the other road. I have some questions about the time needed for him to walk there and back, and where the assault happened.

I'm not sure what you mean by "initiated the conflict". Do you mean Zimmerman following Martin? Lets get something straight here: following someone does not excuse an assault. Especially if Zimmerman stopped following Martin (which appears to be the case).

 

[Dedalus]

Lets get something straight here: following someone does not excuse an assault.

I completely disagree. It really depends on the nature of the pursuit. If you get into someone's personal space - all bets are off. In of itself following someone closely who identifies you as a stranger and a possible threat could easily be interpreted as provoking. It was also dark and raining. Eh...need I mention self-defense?

 

[das_nut]

I completely disagree. It really depends on the nature of the pursuit. If you get into someone's personal space - all bets are off. In of itself following someone closely who identifies you as a stranger and a possible threat could easily be interpreted as provoking. It was also dark and raining. Eh...need I mention self-defense?

Your scenario is not legally self-defense, because you have a duty to flee. You're talking about stand-your-ground.

But the problem with both self-defense and stand-your-ground, in this scenario, is that the assault appears to have taken place minutes after Zimmerman broke off the pursuit of Martin. Self-defense and SYG requires the immediate threat of force.

 

[ledboots]

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...ily-escape-overturned-car-in-sanford-fla?lite

 

[Mischief]

One has to wonder why someone who is capable of such remarkable feats didn't have the strength to throw off someone who didn't outweigh him, instead of shooting the person.

 

[Dedalus]

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...ily-escape-overturned-car-in-sanford-fla?lite

Somebody better get this guy a cape!

 

[das_nut]

One has to wonder why someone who is capable of such remarkable feats didn't have the strength to throw off someone who didn't outweigh him, instead of shooting the person.

What part of that article makes you think that feats of remarkable strength were committed by Zimmerman in that article?

Here's what I read:

Police say George Zimmerman helped rescue a family trapped in an overturned vehicle off a Florida highway last week, Zimmerman's first known public sighting since his acquittal in the shooting death of Trayvon Martin.

The incident occurred on July 17 in Sanford, Fla., near the intersection of Interstate 4 and State Road 46, officials confirmed to NBC News. The rescue was first reported by ABC News.

Zimmerman and another man were assisting a family of four when officers with the Seminole County Sheriff's Office arrived on the scene of the accident. A blue Ford Explorer had traveled off the road and rolled over, according to officials.

Zimmerman and the other man were helping the two children and their parents get out of the overturned vehicle, the Seminole County Sheriff’s Office said. The former neighborhood watch volunteer left the scene after making contact with police and did not witness the crash.

I'm not seeing where a great deal of strength is needed.

 

[Dedalus]

What part of that article makes you think that feats of remarkable strength were committed by Zimmerman in that article?

Mischief didn't say 'remarkable feats of strength.' He said 'remarkable feats.'

Oftentimes superhero's have several remarkable abilities which may or may not include strength.