"God gave us animals to Consume! So,it’s OK?

[VeganRachel]

HOW CAN VEGANS REACH CHRISTIANS WHO SAY, "God gave us the animals to eat, so its' ok"?

Hi all. I am not religious but I am spiritual. I do however believe in a kind loving non-judgemental God of light as well as Yeshua.
All religions emphasize kindness and compassion, yet they also okay and even promote eating animal flesh and blood. Some
churches host hunting events, in addition to get-together dinners where animals are served. Many religious humans use
the justification of eating animals saying, God gave them to us to feed us. So that makes it okay.
I believe that God blessed us with the animals for us to be caretakers, stewards, even parents, so we could have companions.
Not so we could kill, destroy, use, and eat them. We were also blessed with the Earth to live and thrive on, as caretakers and stewards,
yet we have really disrespected this gift.
What is the best approach to reach religious humans about the killing and consumption of animals by humans?. Namaste'.

 

[Sax]

Life's too short to argue with people who think their opinions come from god.

 

[Brian W]

It's not the focus of our faith so we are not to argue about it but to bear with each other in love. There are enough places in the Bible to show that God doesn't wish for suffering at all. He is also aware of our weaknesses and bears with us though. Genesis shows that God didn't make animals for our food but because, quote: "It is not good for man to be alone."

 

[vesper818]

In Genesis 1, right after the verse where God gives man dominion (stewardship) over ll the fish, and birds and animals of the earth, vs 29 says:
Then God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you; and to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the sky and to every thing that moves on the earth which has life, I have given every green plant for food”; and it was so.

As a Christian, that convinces me of some of the Designer's intention for how we should eat.
I've yet to share that with fellow believers, and try to approach differences with a soft response.

 

[silva]

Hi all. I am not religious but I am spiritual. I do however believe in a kind loving non-judgemental God of light as well as Yeshua.
All religions emphasize kindness and compassion, yet they also okay and even promote eating animal flesh and blood. Some
churches host hunting events, in addition to get-together dinners where animals are served. Many religious humans use
the justification of eating animals saying, God gave them to us to feed us. So that makes it okay.
I believe that God blessed us with the animals for us to be caretakers, stewards, even parents, so we could have companions.
Not so we could kill, destroy, use, and eat them. We were also blessed with the Earth to live and thrive on, as caretakers and stewards,
yet we have really disrespected this gift.
What is the best approach to reach religious humans about the killing and consumption of animals by humans?. Namaste'.

Why do you feel it's okay to target religious beliefs?
There are too many for me to focus on one, as far as i'm concerned .

 

[bEt]

I believe that God blessed us with the animals for us to be caretakers, stewards, even parents, so we could have companions.
Not so we could kill, destroy, use, and eat them. We were also blessed with the Earth to live and thrive on, as caretakers and stewards,
yet we have really disrespected this gift.

Hi Rachel, I think you already answered your own question.
It sounds like you have given this a lot of thought.
It can be frustrating to have relatives and other people in your life who aren't able to see what you see, no matter how you try to reach them.

 

[VeganRachel]

Life's too short to argue with people who think their opinions come from god.

Ha ha, interesting post. However there is a Christian, Jewish, Buddhist, and even Muslim Vegetarian association.
So there are some religious humans who have the ability to love their higher power, and, appreciate the lives
of non-humans animals. They are not always, separate. Certainly those Associations have also had the success of
reaching others in their own religions with a positive message of peace, compassion and love. The ability to change
is within all of us, no matter what we believe. I refuse to give up on anyone.

 

[VeganRachel]

It's not the focus of our faith so we are not to argue about it but to bear with each other in love. There are enough places in the Bible to show that God doesn't wish for suffering at all. He is also aware of our weaknesses and bears with us though. Genesis shows that God didn't make animals for our food but because, quote: "It is not good for man to be alone."

I agree. The truth is whatever we allow ourselves to believe in and focus on.

Hi Rachel, I think you already answered your own question.
It sounds like you have given this a lot of thought.
It can be frustrating to have relatives and other people in your life who aren't able to see what you see, no matter how you try to reach them.

Hi, thanks, but I have only my beliefs. I asked the question to understand others beliefs as well as of those who are religious
and have their experiences and perspective. I listen to a Christian radio station so I can understand what others believe. I have
learned a lot, but I do not agree with everything that i hear them discuss. There is a large amount of judgement against others
who are not Christian (non-believers) and saying they will not go to heaven, etcetera. Peace, love, compassion, God, Yeshua, family,
Revelation, the Bible, etcetera are discussed on the stations programs. But the overall attitude is that God gave us everything and
for our benefit, including animals. It is interesting that whatever group we belong to, we generally believe that we are right, religious,
political party, or even vegan.

 

[VeganRachel]

Why do you feel it's okay to target religious beliefs?
There are too many for me to focus on one, as far as i'm concerned .

I am doing my best to understand an omnivore dominated world, and religion is a part of that world.
I question all beliefs that support and allow animal exploitation as acceptable. I also question all
beliefs that focus on hatred, judgement, and discrimination. I may also be guilty of that. I am a lesbian and
am also fascinated by religious beliefs about heterosexuality versus other lifestyles. I support an
adults choice to change their gender, if that is a well-thought out decision, yet religion blasphemizes
that choice.. Many humans have left religions because of the often judgement and hatred expressed.
If a religious human wants to believe 'xyz' that is their choice, but I will still question many
opinions and beliefs as they will question mine. The goal is a more peaceful, loving, compassionate,
live and let live world. I do not know everything but I am doing my best to understand. cheers.

 

[VeganRachel]

In Genesis 1, right after the verse where God gives man dominion (stewardship) over ll the fish, and birds and animals of the earth, vs 29 says:
Then God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you; and to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the sky and to every thing that moves on the earth which has life, I have given every green plant for food”; and it was so.

As a Christian, that convinces me of some of the Designer's intention for how we should eat.
I've yet to share that with fellow believers, and try to approach differences with a soft response.

I agree. The Bible does spell things out in early Genesis and in other places. I agree that we humans were designed to be just plant eaters.
I believe Yeshua was a strict vegetarian, yet these facts were omitted from the Bible. He was an Essene, known to be vegetarians. But after the flood, temporary animal eating permission for Noah degenerates into further violence and an obsession with blood sacrifice and the slaughter and eating of animals as normal. "For meat, destroy not the work of God", "But blood with the life thereof ye shall not eat"...What we humans want to do, we will
always defend with evidence and justifications. For omnivore humans, the Bible has multiple "proofs" that it is a blessing to eat Gods' children and that we were given them for that purpose. The Christian vegetarian group has a great website. Christian Vegetarian Association (CVA)

 

[VeganRachel]

It's not the focus of our faith so we are not to argue about it but to bear with each other in love. There are enough places in the Bible to show that God doesn't wish for suffering at all. He is also aware of our weaknesses and bears with us though. Genesis shows that God didn't make animals for our food but because, quote: "It is not good for man to be alone."

Thank you for your thoughts. I agree that God intended we live in a loving, peaceful world by eating plants, not animals.

 

[beancounter]

Personally, I'm not a fan of religion, but here's a little something to push back with.

Genesis 1:29....

Genesis 1:29 ESV - And God said, “Behold, I have… | Biblia

And God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the face of all the earth, and every tree with seed in its fruit....

biblia.com

 

[David3]

The Bible has such mixed messages regarding animal treatment. I don't think it's possible to present a consistent case.

Exodus 29:19-22:

"Then you shall take the other ram, and Aaron and his sons shall lay their hands on the head of the ram. "You shall slaughter the ram, and take some of its blood and put it on the lobe of Aaron's right ear and on the lobes of his sons' right ears and on the thumbs of their right hands and on the big toes of their right feet, and sprinkle the rest of the blood around on the altar. "Then you shall take some of the blood that is on the altar and some of the anointing oil, and sprinkle it on Aaron and on his garments and on his sons and on his sons' garments with him; so he and his garments shall be consecrated, as well as his sons and his sons' garments with him."

 

[Sax]

Ha ha, interesting post. However there is a Christian, Jewish, Buddhist, and even Muslim Vegetarian association.
So there are some religious humans who have the ability to love their higher power, and, appreciate the lives
of non-humans animals. They are not always, separate. Certainly those Associations have also had the success of
reaching others in their own religions with a positive message of peace, compassion and love. The ability to change
is within all of us, no matter what we believe. I refuse to give up on anyone.

I agree. I just don't think people eat meat because of their religious beliefs, and claiming they do is just a defense mechanism. If they can't be honest that they eat meat because they enjoy it, and pretend they're doing god's bidding instead, then yeah I won't waste my time. That's a small group of religious people of course.

 

[Graeme M]

I don't know where you can go with those who believe that God says it is good to use animals. The Bible appears to condone that in many ways throughout and many of faith believe that other species are lesser in a way that makes it acceptable for humans to do so. I am not religious, but from what I understand of the Bible, God made the world vegan in the beginning and the new world He creates will also be vegan. In between, He gave permission to use other species for our own needs. Whether one can present that as a strong argument for people to be vegan I don't know - God presumably would prefer us to try to keep to His original plan for the world to the best of our ability. Permission does not make an order, so we can choose not to use animals and seek to pursue the way that God originally planned. However I put that to someone the other day and their response was to observe God knows all and hence knew when He created the world that He would cause the flood and give permission for animal use, so clearly He had provided animals in the first place for the purpose of furnishing us with food and fibers etc.

People will always bend something as insubstantial as faith to their own ends, so good luck in convincing them of your version of the truth. And I mean that sincerely, I just don't think anyone changes their mind on this matter until they want to. And that's the tricky bit.

 

[VeganRachel]

The Bible has such mixed messages regarding animal treatment. I don't think it's possible to present a consistent case.

Exodus 29:19-22:

"Then you shall take the other ram, and Aaron and his sons shall lay their hands on the head of the ram. "You shall slaughter the ram, and take some of its blood and put it on the lobe of Aaron's right ear and on the lobes of his sons' right ears and on the thumbs of their right hands and on the big toes of their right feet, and sprinkle the rest of the blood around on the altar. "Then you shall take some of the blood that is on the altar and some of the anointing oil, and sprinkle it on Aaron and on his garments and on his sons and on his sons' garments with him; so he and his garments shall be consecrated, as well as his sons and his sons' garments with him."

I believe that compassion and empathy rule over every decision. The 'bible' also recommends blood sacrificing children to Moloch, but that does not mean that is the correct thing to do!, Yes, the Bible has many contradictions. To me this shows that multiple humans changed the bible and used their own interpretations, also understanding that the Bible was written 200 years after Yeshua was killed. The Nag Hammadhi scriptures show
what the bible writers deliberately left out. And I believe part of what was omitted was that vegetarianism and spirituality was normal.
There is also a ton of wisdom in the bible, there are a lot of mis-translations nd mis-interpretations of ancient words and meanings. For instance, adulterers are supposed to be "stoned". However that does not mean to throw ROCKS at, but it does refer to publicly admonishing
those who commit adultery. From what I have read, Roman Emperor Constantine was pagan and seemed to convert to Christianity, but not
entirely. For some reason he hated vegetarians and had us tortured and put to death. He also had scribes deliberately alter
the bible and change and delete passages that did not support his dogma and beliefs. There is a lot of spirituality that was
never included in the Bible, which never mentions Yeshua's early life and that he was a very spiritual person who practiced
meditation and yoga, saw women as equals and teachers, an taught love and compassion for all animals. What was obviously
allowed by the scribes were passages added that okayed the satanic blood animal sacrifices that were pagan that you quoted above
(and God did not want these blood sacrifices). There are many passages that also encourage the satanic sacrifice of children as well.
See this reference for satanic bible passages, quite interesting. cheers. whale.to/c/bible_passages.html

 

[VeganRachel]

I don't know where you can go with those who believe that God says it is good to use animals. The Bible appears to condone that in many ways throughout and many of faith believe that other species are lesser in a way that makes it acceptable for humans to do so. I am not religious, but from what I understand of the Bible, God made the world vegan in the beginning and the new world He creates will also be vegan. In between, He gave permission to use other species for our own needs. Whether one can present that as a strong argument for people to be vegan I don't know - God presumably would prefer us to try to keep to His original plan for the world to the best of our ability. Permission does not make an order, so we can choose not to use animals and seek to pursue the way that God originally planned. However I put that to someone the other day and their response was to observe God knows all and hence knew when He created the world that He would cause the flood and give permission for animal use, so clearly He had provided animals in the first place for the purpose of furnishing us with food and fibers etc.

People will always bend something as insubstantial as faith to their own ends, so good luck in convincing them of your version of the truth. And I mean that sincerely, I just don't think anyone changes their mind on this matter until they want to. And that's the tricky bit.

When humans pick and choose of what to believe in the Bible, they will ignore early Genesis that tells humans what God wants us
to eat, the plants. And focus on the other "permissions" and encouragements to eat animals. And also ignore messages like "for meat
destroy not the work of God", and "but blood with the life ye shall not eat".
I believe that Noah was given temporary permisson to consume creatures that did not have a central nervous system, which would
have been the sea creatures like clams and mollusks. I do not sgree that animals were provided to us for FOOD. They were provided to be
our companions and friends, and we there caretakers.
I do believe that we humans will find ways to justify and excuse our choices If a religious human wants to consume flesh and blood,
they will do so and find a reason, including biblical, to justify that choice. Yet, if they were also interpreting the bible literally,
that person could also state that the Bible okays the satanic sacrifice of children to moloch/baal as well, because it does. So, we can
clearly see that the Bible is used as permission for whatever they choose to do (and choose to ignore). thanks for your comments.

 

[VeganRachel]

Personally, I'm not a fan of religion, but here's a little something to push back with.

Genesis 1:29....

Genesis 1:29 ESV - And God said, “Behold, I have… | Biblia

And God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the face of all the earth, and every tree with seed in its fruit....

biblia.com

I agree. Early Genesis is quite clear. But when someone wants to do something, they will seek the passages that appear to glorify
and give permission for eating animals,

 

[VeganRachel]

I agree. I just don't think people eat meat because of their religious beliefs, and claiming they do is just a defense mechanism. If they can't be honest that they eat meat because they enjoy it, and pretend they're doing god's bidding instead, then yeah I won't waste my time. That's a small group of religious people of course.

I agree that it is a sticky issue, and that religion is one of those topics that creates a lot of arguments. I also believe that since
religions all seem to discuss compassion, kindness toward others, it should apply to everything and every animal. I think also
that more people should think for themselves and question the logic in a book that has dozens of contradictory statements.
There are clear vegetarian and animal life-supporting passages in the bible--and-- those that glorify blood animal and human
sacrifices as well. These contradict with "thou shalt not kill". Yet how many bible believers today are not just eating flesh and blood,
but are also sacrificing their children to a Pagan god (moloch or baal). Thanks for your comments.

 

[Graeme M]

@VeganRachel, I have a small booklet produced by the Edenite Society from New Jersey back in 1977. It is titled "Jesus was a vegetarian, why aren't you". In the introduction, they make the same claim that we have discussed above - that God clearly created a vegan world. It can still be bought, apparently. Jesus Was a Vegetarian-Why Aren't You?: The Edenite Society, Inc: Amazon.com: Books