"God gave us animals to Consume! So,it’s OK?

[veganfortheanimalss]

If a woman brings a new life into the world it doesn't mean she has the right to kill it as well. A loving God does not drown countless babies and other animals.

Veganism is beautiful because it stands in defiance of 4.5 billion years of evolution and natural selection. For the first time in earths history there is a big group which put other species needs first with no benefit to them or their species. I believe in the Vegan Ideal, which is defeating the cruelty of evolution/natural-selection. This means in practice, completely eliminating pain, suffering and/or death. Currently we are in a time where sentient beings are killed in the billions for their body parts, and this is the pressing issue at hand. But as time moves forward hopefully we have solved the animals killing issues and move our goal post towards the Ideal. I believe Veganism will constantly evolve towards the ideal.

But these other (religious) philosophies are nothing but a continuation of natural selection. At their very best, they tell the individual to put his wants after his species needs. And the way they do it is through fear of punishment from magical sky beings. This nonsense isn't working well now since most individuals now know there is no sky daddy. At the worst, these philosophies incite war between groups because the other group believes in a different sky daddy.

What? I bet there are more who follow plant based diets for health, environment, sustainability, and practicality than those who go vegan solely for animal rights. I bet you they're more likely to remain plant based
And please, vegans do not, and will not, eliminate pain suffering and/or death
Religious philosophies are not one dimensional and it's ignorant to assume, particularly since many are vegan themselves. Do vegans really need to be further divided?

Environment, sustainability and animal rights are tightly interlinked.
I assumed the person I was debating was not vegan.
As the title of the thread says, religious people often justify their cruelty because of their religion. It gives them psychological support. You take away that psychological support perhaps they will become vegan.

 

[silva]

I have no problem as well. As long as they aren't killing them. But the person I was debating is not vegan? He says lifestyle is other.

Many don't feel the need to identify as vegan as the label often comes with unwanted assumptions from omnis, or critique from vegan police
You are far too quick to make assumptions.
There are many who eat a plant based diet that would never identify as vegan
There are many whose veganism is directly linked to their religious beliefs

 

[veganfortheanimalss]

Many don't feel the need to identify as vegan as the label often comes with unwanted assumptions from omnis, or critique from vegan police
You are far too quick to make assumptions.
There are many who eat a plant based diet that would never identify as vegan
There are many whose veganism is directly linked to their religious beliefs

I'm not quick to make assumptions. How am I supposed to know when people identify themselves as other, and on top of it follow contradictory ideologies. But like I said, if they put vegan ethics first before their religion then it's not problem from me. I apologise, for earlier, to that forum user, if he is a vegan.

If people follow veganism for health, but wear wool and skins I don't think they are vegans. They are plant based in their food. Again, still better than eating meat.

And there are vegans who want to take veganism to it's logical end. I believe in time when alternatives are plenty it will happen. The whole point of veganism is to end pain, suffering and death in sentient beings, now. Raw vegans/fruitarians are leading the way to take it a step above.

What you call as not one dimensional is just a fancy word for contradiction. If someone follows non violence but prays to a violent genocidal God, it's a huge contradiction. Again, not an issue if they put veganism first before other contradicting philosophy they follow.

 

[fakei]

HOW CAN VEGANS REACH CHRISTIANS WHO SAY, "God gave us the animals to eat, so its' ok"?

Hi all. I am not religious but I am spiritual. I do however believe in a kind loving non-judgemental God of light as well as Yeshua.
All religions emphasize kindness and compassion, yet they also okay and even promote eating animal flesh and blood. Some
churches host hunting events, in addition to get-together dinners where animals are served. Many religious humans use
the justification of eating animals saying, God gave them to us to feed us. So that makes it okay.
I believe that God blessed us with the animals for us to be caretakers, stewards, even parents, so we could have companions.
Not so we could kill, destroy, use, and eat them. We were also blessed with the Earth to live and thrive on, as caretakers and stewards,
yet we have really disrespected this gift.
What is the best approach to reach religious humans about the killing and consumption of animals by humans?. Namaste'.

I would stop at the idea that we can change other people's minds, people change when they arre ready even though it may come under the guise of having heard something that changed their minds , the entire process of persuading the other is an illusion.

Thanks. But from what I have learned, the God of the old testament is not GOD. GOD is loving, kind, and merciful.
The Wrathful "god" in the OT is angry, vengeful, and believes in blood animal sacrifice--thats' satan and pagan.
No killing of any animal will ever take away our mistakes. I am not religious.

You have a point there that there is evidence, including in the Bible, that the old testament god comes from a polytheistic system ´and is actually two or three gods, if you include the wife, from a wider pantheon, who became a single monotheistic god.

The notion of a perfect God (or gods) is, however, pagan, it was proposed by people like Xenophanes and Empedocles, the last was a vegetarian who sacrificed baked cakes with the form of animals instaed of real animals.

 

[Brian W]

Unnatural vegan did a good review of Christspiracy showing the bad misinformation and bias of the propaganda video while not shying from the bias of the church in it's interpretation of scripture. I have said it before and will say it again, vegetarianism and veganism are well represented in the Bible but we are not to make a spiritual doctrine of them. That is two really good videos on the subject by Swayze, herself an atheist.

 

[Brian W]

You have a point there that there is evidence, including in the Bible, that the old testament god comes from a polytheistic system ´and is actually two or three gods, if you include the wife, from a wider pantheon, who became a single monotheistic god.

I'm sorry, what wife? Joseph Smith who started the Mormons created many doctrines that do not come from the Bible and he s the only "prophet...???" I know of who has ever said that God has a wife - or actually eight wives.

The polytheist origins claim (which I confess I once believed myself) can be broken by a simple passage in Genesis. When creating man, God (Elohim - a composite plural) says "Let us make man in our own image" followed immediately by "so God created man in his own image."

 

[fakei]

I'm sorry, what wife? Joseph Smith who started the Mormons created many doctrines that do not come from the Bible and he s the only "prophet...???" I know of who has ever said that God has a wife - or actually eight wives.

The polytheist origins claim (which I confess I once believed myself) can be broken by a simple passage in Genesis. When creating man, God (Elohim - a composite plural) says "Let us make man in our own image" followed immediately by "so God created man in his own image."

Yhahweh and El are two different gods. Yhahweh was the god of metallurgy from a larger pantheon.

Although the biblical narratives depict Yahweh as the sole creator god, lord of the universe, and god of the Israelites especially, initially he seems to have been Canaanite in origin and subordinate to the supreme god El. Canaanite inscriptions mention a lesser god Yahweh and even the biblical Book of Deuteronomy stipulates that “the Most High, El, gave to the nations their inheritance” and that “Yahweh's portion is his people, Jacob and his allotted heritage” (32:8-9). A passage like this reflects the early beliefs of the Canaanites and Israelites in polytheism or, more accurately, henotheism (the belief in many gods with a focus on a single supreme deity). The claim that Israel always only acknowledged one god is a later belief cast back on the early days of Israel's development in Canaan.

Yahweh

Yahweh is the name of the state god of the ancient Kingdom of Israel and, later, the Kingdom of Judah. His name is composed of four Hebrew consonants (YHWH, known as the Tetragrammaton) which the prophet...

www.worldhistory.org

And then there is the wife:

Yahweh and his Asherah​

“The way Asherah istreated in the scriptures is deeply fascinating. She is vilified anddemeaned. She is linked to a Syrian god and not mentioned in connection withYahweh,” Gudme says.

But Asherah wascloser to Yahweh than the authors of the Old Testament would admit. Gudme, likeother Bible scholars, believes she may have been Yahweh's wife.

“Inscriptions havebeen found from that time that place Asherah side by side with Yahweh, that she is Yahweh's Asherah,” she says.



There are not manyinscriptions that point to Asherah and Yahweh as a couple, but they have beenfound in several places in the area.

One of them is fromSinai, Egypt – see the image above. Another of the finds was madein Jerusalem. Two divine figures stand close together on a fragment of a pot. Researchers believeit is Yahweh and Asherah.

There are not manyinscriptions that point to Asherah and Yahweh as a couple, but they have beenfound in several places in the area.

One of them is fromSinai, Egypt – see the image above. Another of the finds was madein Jerusalem. Two divine figures stand close together on a fragment of a pot. Researchers believeit is Yahweh and Asherah.

Fierce propaganda against Asherah​

In addition toinscriptions, researchers have found a number of small female ceramic figurines.Most agree that these represent Asherah.
“We don't know muchabout Asherah. She is often associated with love, passion, and war, but it's notcertain that these were actually her domains,” says Gudme.

The authors of theOld Testament were active in their propaganda against Asherah. They equate herwith a well-known villain, the false god Ba'al. They encourage people to destroysymbols of Asherah.

‘Tear downtheir altars, smash their sacred pillars, cut down their Asherah poles, and burn their idols in the fire,’ it says in Deuteronomy,chapter 7, verse 5.

“They are eager to tell people not to worship Asherah, also called the Queen of Heaven. Thiswouldn't have been necessary if they thought she didn't exist,” Gudme says. https://www.sciencenorway.no/archaeology-christianity-history/god-originally-had-a-wife/234980

See also:

Did God have a wife? Scholar says that he did

God had a wife, Asherah, whom the Book of Kings suggests was worshiped alongside Yahweh in his temple in Israel, according to an Oxford scholar.

www.nbcnews.com

​

 

[fakei]

BTW I'm not denying the existence of God, only expressing disbelief in the god of Abrahamic religions, or their interpretation of God.

 

[g0rph]

BTW I'm not denying the existence of God, only expressing disbelief in the god of Abrahamic religions, or their interpretation of God.

Which is essentially every religious person in every different religion. Of which there have been 1000's.

I'd sum it up. "If you are going to use your irrational, made-up deity to justify cruelty, then quite honestly, we are done here".