"God gave us animals to eat,so it's ok"?
- Thread starter VeganRachel
- Start date
I had written a reply above but it is not there now... so I am re-writing it here.
I said two things:
1: Re God ok-ing eating animals after the flood - not exploiting or killing animals as far as practical may be consistent with saving teh human race temproraliy and tragically allowing starving people after a climate emergency and no vegetation to eat those animals for the first time.
2: About the Christspiracy film and the interpretation of the Biblical event of Jesus overthrowing the dove sellers Temple
Matthew 21:12 there were doves being sold not just money being sold
There is a reason doves were sold - animals were sacrificed at religious ceremonies at that time.
There are translations of the word 'thieves' in den of thieves that mean 'violent bandits'.
Here are three examinations of the Hebrew word:word
Serene Musings: A Den of Robbers
Thieves, Robbers, or Rebels? | Sunday Morning Greek Blog
and this book on page 77:
The Fate of the Jerusalem Temple in Luke-Acts: An Intertextual Approach to ... - Steve Smith - Google Books
The film highlights this translation.
It is the same word as describes 'violent ones' in Daniel 11:14
New King James Version:
Also, violent men of your people shall exalt themselves in fulfillment of the vision, but they shall fall.
I think the interpretation in the film is not blasphemous.
It is not only this film Chistspiracy that highlights this but the interpretations of the Bible are already out there
I does make it clear I recommend watching it.
---
I made a video a month ago:
looking at the different interpretations of this event in the bible.
I suggested Jesus' message was of mercy for suffering and for the spirit of life,
and monetary unfairness in money changing is not as likely to make Jesus as angry as unnecessary killing would be in a place of prayer.
I said two things:
1: Re God ok-ing eating animals after the flood - not exploiting or killing animals as far as practical may be consistent with saving teh human race temproraliy and tragically allowing starving people after a climate emergency and no vegetation to eat those animals for the first time.
2: About the Christspiracy film and the interpretation of the Biblical event of Jesus overthrowing the dove sellers Temple
Matthew 21:12 there were doves being sold not just money being sold
There is a reason doves were sold - animals were sacrificed at religious ceremonies at that time.
There are translations of the word 'thieves' in den of thieves that mean 'violent bandits'.
Here are three examinations of the Hebrew word:word
Serene Musings: A Den of Robbers
Thieves, Robbers, or Rebels? | Sunday Morning Greek Blog
and this book on page 77:
The Fate of the Jerusalem Temple in Luke-Acts: An Intertextual Approach to ... - Steve Smith - Google Books
The film highlights this translation.
It is the same word as describes 'violent ones' in Daniel 11:14
New King James Version:
Also, violent men of your people shall exalt themselves in fulfillment of the vision, but they shall fall.
I think the interpretation in the film is not blasphemous.
It is not only this film Chistspiracy that highlights this but the interpretations of the Bible are already out there
I does make it clear I recommend watching it.
---
I made a video a month ago:
I suggested Jesus' message was of mercy for suffering and for the spirit of life,
and monetary unfairness in money changing is not as likely to make Jesus as angry as unnecessary killing would be in a place of prayer.
peacefulveglady
Forum Legend
He meant of Den of thieves they were not being honest of how they were selling the animals so that why he did what he did.
Jesus Diet BasicsColbert explains that Jesus ate a Mediterranean-style diet based on wholesome, unprocessed foods in accordance with ancient Jewish dietary laws. Based on his research he concluded that the diet of Jesus would have included fish, whole wheat bread, olives, figs, dates and red wine.
Plus He ate some Lamb meat wish vegans research the truth then rely on some vegan man making Jesus vegan for agenda.
peacefulveglady
Forum Legend
Regarding the word used for thieves
I do not think I am pushing an interpretation, I think it is the translators of for example the King James Bible who have used either intentionally or unintentionally their own cultural standard upon the biblical texts.
For example the text of Daniel 1:14
Also, violent men of your people shall exalt themselves in fulfillment of the vision, but they shall fall.
(King James Bible)
This translation of ‘violent men’ is from exacly the same word as for ‘thieves’ in the the ‘den of thieves’ quotation.
Christians are free to interpret the best they can with the facts they have available and made known to them.
peacefulveglady
Forum Legend
OP
OP
I understand your anger. However there are several books written about the inconsitencies in the Bible, and how thousands of
times, names, events, places cannot have happened the way the bible says they did. The bible was somewhat written from other
ancient texts that predate the bible by hundreds of years. For instance, Yeshua did not share FISH with the masses, he actually
was vegetarian and shared bread and GRAPES (or melons). However this may also anger you.
It was also re-written by Emporer Constantine who was a pagan roman ruler
who supposodly converted to Christianity (he did to get elected). The belief is that HE (through his many scribes) had the bible changed
and altered in many ways.
The Dead sea scrolls were hidden in caves to keep them from being destroyed.
The Nag Hamadhi texts were also ancient, as is the Gospel of the Holy twelve.
You can dig your heels in, or, you can at least read and listen to information that shows, something is amiss. Thats; the only way
to learn. You are in a vegan chat room, so you once were an omnivore as well.
OP
OP
Yeshua saw the animal sacrificing as desecrating "his fathers house" with blood of the innocent.
He did not eat dead fish or dead animals. He was an animal rights activist. He and his family were Essenes, and vegetarians.
There were many floods mentioned in much older texts than the modern bible. It is believed that much info. in the bible
were taken and re-interpreted from these older texts.
I think the Bible is an amazing book and does have wisdom in it. Yet it was corrupted by Pagan roman emporer constantine and
his council of nicea around the 4th c, and humans have believed all in it for many years.....cheers
Brian W
Conscientious Christian
Anything but what most scholars believe. Jesus turned over the tables because the money lenders were ripping people off, not because of animal rights. After his resurrection, he ate fish in front of his disciples to prove he wasn't a ghost. There is no reliable evidence whatsoever that he was a vegetarian, no evidence that he was an essene and historical records show that essenes ate some meat.
Was Jesus a Vegetarian?
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Brian W
Conscientious Christian
OP
OP
You have your beliefs.
"Meat" back then referred to any solid food, not necessarilty to the cadaver of an animal.
However sacred bread was made IN THE SHAPE OF FISH. They used bread molds sahped like fish. Back then, "broiled" meant TOAST by the way.
Also, in that part of the world humans did and still do eat seaweed that was also referred to as fish from the sea.
Why would anyone who just passed, want to eat FOOD, let alone something DEAD? we have no appetite when we pass....
I will make you into "fishers of men". Yeshua abhorred killing animals and multiple bible references attest to his compassion toward animals.
So tell me, how would Yeshua, the Lamb of God, the Prince of peace, The BREAD of life, kill an animal to eat it?.
Yeshua, his whole family were vegetarians. Yeshua was an Essene. He did not eat the dead. While SOME Essenes may have eaten the dead.
WHY are Yeshua's years, from 12 to 30 or so, not included at all in the bible?. They were scrubbed!.
The "fish story" was added later by Constantine's scribes who promoted eating the dead and their blood.
The GOSPEL OF THE HOLY TWELVE, Gospel of the Ebionites, reveals the truths hidden from the bible. Have a blessed day.
Graeme M
Forum Legend
As I suggested back a few pages, I think the Christian bible offers ample scope for Christians to behave much as vegans do. I'm not sure why there is a need to prove Jesus was vegetarian or whatever, because it's clear from the bible that God permits people to use animals. And back then, using them for food and clothing etc was important. As to how Jesus would have killed an animal, I'd say he'd have done so according to whatever were the customs of the time. I really don't think he would have felt some particular motivation not to kill it if the need was there. Animals are not human beings.
The bottom line is that vegans and Christians are permitted by both secular law and by God to kill and eat animals. From there, they get to apply the ethical principles they believe should be applied according to their respective beliefs about the world. Neither HAS to kill an animal for food, whenever circumstances permit.
The bottom line is that vegans and Christians are permitted by both secular law and by God to kill and eat animals. From there, they get to apply the ethical principles they believe should be applied according to their respective beliefs about the world. Neither HAS to kill an animal for food, whenever circumstances permit.
This is an interpretation of the Bible that is common amongst Christians today, but the permission you mention can be interpreted as only relevant for people temporarily at points in the Bible, there were wars in the Bible that does not mean wars are good now. It is very possible to interpret the Bible as saying God does not want us to kill animals and to interpret the Gospels as Jesus being a vegetarian.
Here is a verse supporting this:
Isaiah 1:11 The LORD says, “I do not want all these sacrifices. I have had enough of your burnt sacrifices of male sheep and fat from fine animals. I am not pleased by the blood of bulls, lambs, and goats.
OP
OP
Graeme M
Forum Legend
Yes, and it is crystal clear that the original Creation was essentially "vegan". And apparently so will what comes next. But after the Fall (correct me if I am wrong here, as an atheist I am not *that* familiar with the bible), nature was corrupted and so carnivory came into being along with sin and death. Humans changed, and so eating animals became more commonplace. Plus God demanded atonement sacrifice. Then after the Flood, God gave permission to eat animals, but really that was just making clear what had already become the norm. So sure, with Jesus's sacrifice the need for the spilling of animal blood as an atonement ended, but I don't think there is any biblical passage that shows some general direction not to eat animals. I think where we are is that God allows animal use (and the diet laws were changed with Jesus to allow all animals to be eaten), but the important point is "allows". Not "orders". And that's why I think Christians can be guided by both God's just and compassionate nature as well as reference to pre-Fall times to act in ways that we can regard as consistent with veganism. In neither case is anyone under a direct order not to use/eat animals. It's all a personal choice.
Brian W
Conscientious Christian
Where? Book, chapter and verse please. God always punished the Israelites for such.
Brian W
Conscientious Christian
For an atheist, you have understood it very well indeed. One thing about Christianity is that it is not about written laws and rules, it is about the heart. When I contemplate the heart of God by looking at Jesus I see a heart of compassion that I want to emulate and I find myself wanting to cause least possible harm to all of God's creation.
I'm not religious or spiritual myself, but am pretty familiar with religion. All religions suggest that eating animal flesh is less virtuous than plant foods. Early Christian's for example had many days out of the calendar year where they would abstain from meat and animal products. There are no forbidden plant foods in any religion, but many meats are considered unholy, like pork
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