Is it true that being vegan actually saves animals?

[nobody]

Also, your (FN) impression of antinatalism is that it's all about doom and gloom but the idea has the ability to validate people who perhaps feel they missed out and did not fulfill their true potential if they never had children or were never able to have children of their own for some medical reason.

Also, sometimes adults' parents pressure them to produce grandchildren, but if the grandparents are antinatalistis they don't, which is a positive for their adult children, because nobody wants to be pressured into a decision like that.

 

[Forest Nymph]

You've have been attributing everything I say to Benatar this whole thread.

Benatar cannot be wrong because he did not make the following statement, I did: every person he saves from existence is one you don't have to veganize and one that will not be polluting the environment. My answer to your response to my own statement is that he doesn't speak to aboriginal groups, especially not ones from the past. His audience is modern westerners whose children will most likely not be vegetarian or live in accordance with nature, if they are conceived.

But that doesn't matter because Benatar says that it always represents a harm and it is always immoral to intentionally bring a sentient being into existence. That is his main point. So that would include vegan children living in harmony with nature. Their existence still would be a harm to themselves and others in their tribe.

Ok. Again I'm fine with you being child free or whatever. But otherwise I think you're wrong, for the reasons I've described.

I also think Benetar is an awful human being for saying it's morally wrong to bring any sentient life into existence under any circumstances. I think such a position is mentally unhealthy.

We will agree to disagree. I have no further interest in this topic as this attitude is neither helpful for creating new vegans nor of saving life on this planet.

 

[nobody]

I was just reading a very good article in the Summer 1994 issue of The Vegan, the official newsletter of the UK Vegan Society. The article, which starts on page 10, https://issuu.com/vegan_society/docs/the-vegan-summer-1994 contains the following quote:

"If you as a vegan choose to give birth to a child and it later turns out to be a meat eater, it renders you own personal commitment completely invalid"

That's how I feel about it but it goes far beyond your own child. You have to take into account your child's descendants as well. Your descendants could possibly be an unbroken line of animal product users spanning hundreds of generations.

P.s. the whole archive of past The Vegan issues is here: https://issuu.com/vegan_society

 

[Forest Nymph]

I was just reading a very good article in the Summer 1994 issue of The Vegan, the official newsletter of the UK Vegan Society. The article, which starts on page 10, https://issuu.com/vegan_society/docs/the-vegan-summer-1994 contains the following quote:

"If you as a vegan choose to give birth to a child and it later turns out to be a meat eater, it renders you own personal commitment completely invalid"

That's how I feel about it but it goes far beyond your own child. You have to take into account your child's descendants as well. Your descendants could possibly be an unbroken line of animal product users spanning hundreds of generations.

P.s. the whole archive of past The Vegan issues is here: https://issuu.com/vegan_society

Yeah...I really don't care. I told you that I was fine with you not having kids. I agreed that the world is overpopulated. I'm not going to agree with this psychotic **** about descendents of people, or that all sentient life is better not existing. I'm sorry your life is so miserable you feel that way, but I am not going to talk to you about this anymore.

 

[nobody]

Yeah...I really don't care. I told you that I was fine with you not having kids. I agreed that the world is overpopulated. I'm not going to agree with this psychotic **** about descendents of people, or that all sentient life is better not existing. I'm sorry your life is so miserable you feel that way, but I am not going to talk to you about this anymore.

Just because I was talking to you previously doesn't mean that last post was directed at you. This is a public forum. I didn't DM you. Why do you assume everything is about you? I didn't address you by name or quote anything you said.

Also, that post had nothing to do with Benatar. I hope the psychotic **** you are referring to is Laone, the person who wrote the article. Laone does not believe that all life is better off not existing so why are you even saying that? She says in the article that she doesn't want the human race to go extinct.

The questions I asked above are rhetorical. You don't need to answer them if you are really done talking about it.

 

[Forest Nymph]

Just because I was talking to you previously doesn't mean that last post was directed at you. This is a public forum. I didn't DM you. Why do you assume everything is about you? I didn't address you by name or quote anything you said.

Also, that post had nothing to do with Benatar. I hope the psychotic **** you are referring to is Laone, the person who wrote the article. Laone does not believe that all life is better off not existing so why are you even saying that? She says in the article that she doesn't want the human race to go extinct.

The questions I asked above are rhetorical. You don't need to answer them if you are really done talking about it.

Because this rhetoric is unhealthy and unhelpful to getting other people to be vegan. This is some nihilistic elitist navel gazing depressive ****, and there are enough real problems on earth without you trying to make other people feel guilty for being parents. This ideology borders on genocidal thinking. I can just put you on ignore, and yet you continuing to harp on this topic has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE OP.

Bye!

 

[nobody]

Because this rhetoric is unhealthy and unhelpful to getting other people to be vegan. This is some nihilistic elitist navel gazing depressive ****, and there are enough real problems on earth without you trying to make other people feel guilty for being parents. This ideology borders on genocidal thinking. I can just put you on ignore, and yet you continuing to harp on this topic has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE OP.

Bye!

I'm not trying to make anyone feel guilty for something they have already done. If someone already has kids, this is still a good message for them because if they become antinatalistis they can at least let their children know it is okay to not have children themselves. And if they are already grandparents of adults, they can dissuade their adult grandchildren from having kids, which would be good whether you believe life is ever worth starting in some situations or not, since presently there are already 7.3 billion people on the planet.

"There are enough real problems on earth." Well, the biggest one is the overpopulation problem. Like I said (not David Benatar) before, and they say something similar to this in Cowspiracy, if there were only 10,000 people on the planet, or even 100,000, their fossil fuel and animal use would not be enough to cause global warming. Climate change is a result of overpopulation and antinatalism directly speaks to that problem.

 

[Tadpole]

I'm not trying to make anyone feel guilty for something they have already done. If someone already has kids, this is still a good message for them because if they become antinatalistis they can at least let their children know it is okay to not have children themselves. And if they are already grandparents of adults, they can dissuade their adult grandchildren from having kids, which would be good whether you believe life is ever worth starting in some situations or not, since presently there are already 7.3 billion people on the planet.

"There are enough real problems on earth." Well, the biggest one is the overpopulation problem. Like I said (not David Benatar) before, and they say something similar to this in Cowspiracy, if there were only 10,000 people on the planet, or even 100,000, their fossil fuel and animal use would not be enough to cause global warming. Climate change is a result of overpopulation and antinatalism directly speaks to that problem.

This makes sense to me and overpopulation is a topic to be genuinely concerned about on a personal level. Sadly certain individuals on here, particularly 'Forest noone whover et al ahem*' seem to spend a lot of their valuable free time expressing their disagreement with everything and anything, attempting to force their own quirky hangups on others who are not as "aware" as them about "the truth". These are really insecurities about their own inadequacies.
They have too much free time and haven't quite realised how to gain positive perspective without trying to weakly undermine others, so don't take it personally, its all a bunch of BS.