Animal Rights Meat eaters responsible for animal cruelty in factory farming

[Ann Chovie]

Regular meat eaters still have an inner voice that tells them it's wrong, it's just that they pretend not to hear it, and that the animals live happy lives in lovely green meadows etc..

I had a conversation with someone last week who told me proudly that she ate organic meat because the animals were all reared ethically and she had an issue with the treatment of factory farmed animals and the cruelty of the slaughterhouse. I questioned her as to where she thought such animals were slaughtered if not in a slaughter house?

She informed me that they had 'special' slaughterhouses for organic animals where they were treated with respect and dignity ( in keeping with their lives frolicking in lovely green meadows presumably?)

When I disputed this she quickly became hostile and insisted it was the case despite having no way of proving her point. I think maybe her inner voice was shouting very loudly at that moment!!!

 

[Ann Chovie]

I see. We're doing them a favor, just like omnis are doing factory farmed animals a favor.

There are other business models possible in third world countries. It's not a choice between sweatshops and starvation, even though it's a really convenient argument for those who want to justify their own choices.

If there are other buisness models ..do you know of them? I am afraid I am not familiar with them.

And are these working models? How successful are they in addressing the poverty of the working people?

 

[Blobbenstein]

so if everyone boycotted sweat shops, then the cloths companies in the west who buy the cloths(etc) from the developing world would just give up the whole business and do something else? Or would maybe the companies in the west start to pay people in developing countries more money; maybe even a living wage(shock horror) to get people to end the boycott?

 

[Mischief]

If there are other buisness models ..do you know of them? I am afraid I am not familiar with them.

And are these working models? How successful are they in addressing the poverty of the working people?

Can we agree that companies in the developed world who sell goods produced in developing countries are not legally constrained to buy from factories with the worst labor conditions?

Can we agree that they buy the products produced as cheaply as possible in order to maximize their own profits?

Can we agree that, if the market for goods produced in sweatshops would shrink and the market for goods produced in factories that provide better working conditions increased because consumers (like you and Clueless Git and I) stopped buying sweatshop produced goods and insisted on goods produced in a more humane manner, that there would then be an incentive for companies to buy from factories that don't, for example, lock their workers inside to burn to death?

Do you see how it ultimately comes down to you and Clueless Git and me, and others like us?

For a more in depth explanation: http://beforeitsnews.com/politics/2...-what-alternatives-are-available-2519884.html

For a research paper on the subject: http://courses.umass.edu/econ797a-rpollin/Pollin--Neoliberalism and Global Sweatshops--2007.pdf

And, in case you haven't heard of the concept of Fair Trade: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_trade

 

[Second Summer]

Isnt it just a question of supply and demand? Doesnt everyone have blood on their hands?

Yes, but in my view some have more blood on them than others.

The slaughterhouse owner would long since have wrung his hands in sorrow as his profits drained away had the shopper in the supermarket not continued to throw cling filmed slabs of meat in her weekly basket.

The slaughterman would have rested his knives and filed into the jobcentre long ago too had not the supermarket needed someone to turn an animal into the slab of cling filmed meat for the shoppers weekly basket.

And the shopper belives her hands are clean because she has not killed anything. But she has. Like any good murder story you never suspect her because her finger prints cannot be found on the knife.

That is clearly one way to look at it, and well put I might add. Yes, collectively, the customers have perhaps a more similar share in animal deaths and suffering as does the slaughterers. However, if we compare one slaughterer to one customer, the view is obviously different. The one slaughterer has responsibility for a much greater number of animal kills than does the one customer.

 

[Blobbenstein]

what do you mean by 'slaughterer'? The individual/s who directly kill the animals, the abattoir?

 

[Second Summer]

what do you mean by 'slaughterer'? The individual/s who directly kill the animals, the abattoir?

Yes. I guess I should have said "butcher". I mean the butcher who directly kills the animals.

 

[Clueless Git]

so if everyone boycotted sweat shops, then the cloths companies in the west who buy the cloths(etc) from the developing world would just give up the whole business and do something else? Or would maybe the companies in the west start to pay people in developing countries more money; maybe even a living wage(shock horror) to get people to end the boycott?

Or would maybe the companies in the west start to pay people in developing countries more money; maybe even a living wage(shock horror) to get people to end the boycott? [/quote]

Higher wages + better work conditions = higher price products = lower volume sales = lower volume production -= less workers employed - social security for unemployed = more unemployed workers starving to death.

The critical piece is the social security.

Without that unemployment (which is all a sweatshop boycott would cause) is pretty much a sentence of death.

Basicaly it is the cost and other implications of social security systems in the poverty stricken hell-holes of the world that needs to be addressed.

 

[Clueless Git]

Yes, collectively, the customers have perhaps a more similar share in animal deaths and suffering as does the slaughterers.

Collectively the animal death toll of customers and slaughterers is exactly the same.

Even wastage, product never bought, is down to the consumer.

It is consumer demand alone that fuels the whole chain.

 

[Clueless Git]

And, in case you haven't heard of the concept of Fair Trade: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_trade

I sell Fair Trade products.

They work well for the fortunate few.

The rest depend on wages from unfair products to keep them alive.

Bit like how 'happy farms' work, but in reverse, in a way.

 

[Mischief]

They work well for the fortunate few.

The rest depend on wages from unfair products to keep them alive.

Because most people are willing for their products to be produced in misery, using as an excuse that it's "better than the alternative." That, of course, entails ignoring the fact that there's more than one alternative.

You should read the research paper I linked to above. There's an analysis of how much the cost of goods produced in Mexico would increase if Mexican factory workers wages were increased by 100%.

 

[SpottedShoreBreather]

I had a conversation with someone last week who told me proudly that she ate organic meat because the animals were all reared ethically and she had an issue with the treatment of factory farmed animals and the cruelty of the slaughterhouse. I questioned her as to where she thought such animals were slaughtered if not in a slaughter house?

She informed me that they had 'special' slaughterhouses for organic animals where they were treated with respect and dignity ( in keeping with their lives frolicking in lovely green meadows presumably?)

When I disputed this she quickly became hostile and insisted it was the case despite having no way of proving her point. I think maybe her inner voice was shouting very loudly at that moment!!!

What about a quick and painless death? If that is possible, wouldn't it be ok? Happy lives, healthy, and slaughtered in a quick and painless way.

 

[Clueless Git]

What about a quick and painless death? If that is possible, wouldn't it be ok? Happy lives, healthy, and slaughtered in a quick and painless way.

If that were possible and ok then all the healthy-happy-smiley people that the Washington sniper got a clean head shot on should be deducted from his "charged with the murder of ..." count.

 

[prioritarian]

it really bothers me when vegans judge omnis. would this kind of judgement have made you receptive to veganism when you were an omni? moreover, since a vegan lifestyle is hardly free of cruelty and exploitation this kind of judgeiness makes vegans seem like hypocrites.