"Proud white man"

[Second Summer]

I recently came across a thought-provoking post on another forum. It had an image containing the following text:

"I'm a proud black man", said the black man.
"I'm a proud Mexican woman", said the Mexican woman.
"I'm a proud Asian man", said the Asian man.
"I'm a proud gay man", said the gay man.
"I'm a proud transgender", said the transgender.
"I'm a proud Native American", said the Native American.
"I'm a proud white man", said the racist.

Is that last statement really racist? Or why could it be perceived as racist? If it had said "I'm a proud European man" (or something similar, like "I'm proud of my European ancestry"), would that have been racist too? Why / why not?

 

[beancounter]

In left leaning circles, white males are the devil. By default, anything they say or do is perceived as intent to cause harm to others.

You can thank the PC police for that narrow minded stereotyping.

 

[Envy]

No, pride in itself isn't bad, it's how it manifests itself in actions that causes problems.

Either way, it ain't racist.

 

[ledboots]

I recently came across a thought-provoking post on another forum. It had an image containing the following text:


Is that last statement really racist? Or why could it be perceived as racist? If it had said "I'm a proud European man" (or something similar, like "I'm proud of my European ancestry"), would that have been racist too? Why / why not?

If the white guy was from Florida, USA, it would immediately make international news and somehow have something to do with Stand Your Ground.

...OK, yes, I'm annoyed that Florida is getting smacked down by the media, but I don't think many white men would say that. They may say "i'm proud to be an Irishman" or "I'm proud to be a Floridian" .

 

[kibbleforlola]

In left leaning circles, white males are the devil. By default, anything they say or do is perceived as intent to cause harm to others.

You can thank the PC police for that narrow minded stereotyping.

My heart, it hurts for you.

 

[beancounter]

My heart, it hurts for you.

And your comment contributes to the discussion how?

 

[Clueless Git]

Is that last statement really racist?

It's racist to think that race alone is any cause for pride, or lack thereof, that's for sure.

 

[cornsail]

In the US it would come off a bit racist considering that belief in racial superiority by whites was used as a reason for slavery, segregation, lynching and other horrible things.

 

[beancounter]

It's racist to think that race alone is any cause for pride, or lack thereof, that's for sure.

I agree. To be proud of something that you can't control makes no sense.

Pride should be the result of the positive outcomes from your efforts/achievments.

 

[Amy SF]

It's because all those other people are members of minorities that have been and still are harassed, persecuted, and marginalized by white people. Especially white people who are straight, male and Christian. When members of minorities state they are proud to be a member of a particular minority, they are asserting self-worth, something that has historically been denied to them. When white men state they are proud to be white, they are perceived to be asserting superiority and dominance over others because of their historical role as persecutors, not as the persecuted.

Does that make any sense?

 

[Freesia]

Yes, it is who holds the power and who is considered "normal", "standard". A white man is considered the default human being.

So he can feel pride for feeling white, but then he has been taught all his life that a white male is the original human, so he is being proud of something that has been taught to him in school through history books and looking at the media.

So therefore if he says he is proud, often it is because he is feeling defensive because he sees other demographics trying to gain prestige and he doesnt like it, because he wants to remain the "default" person.

 

[Envy]

It's because all those other people are members of minorities that have been and still are harassed, persecuted, and marginalized by white people. Especially white people who are straight, male and Christian. When members of minorities state they are proud to be a member of a particular minority, they are asserting self-worth, something that has historically been denied to them. When white men state they are proud to be white, they are perceived to be asserting superiority and dominance over others because of their historical role as persecutors, not as the persecuted.

Does that make any sense?

What about those places where white people aren't the majority then?

 

[Freesia]

If anyone wants to read examples of white pride, particularly white male pride as there are far more male posters there, you only need to peruse the Stormfront Forum. It is not a pretty picture, what is posted there. If you read some of the posts, you may still feel happy to be English/Scandinavian/a white American etc, but you definitely wont want to be associated with the people who proclaim White Pride as a movement. A lot of it ties in with Neo Nazism and the KKK and similar groups.

 

[Blobbenstein]

I'm more relieved to be white. If I was black, I would feel that everyone would look at me everywhere I went...there aren't that many people of other races around where I live.
Being overweight I stand out anyway.

 

[Second Summer]

A couple of thoughts on this ... I would agree that it would seem silly to be proud of something that you have had no influence on. So whether you are one race or the other, or belong to a sexual minority (assuming it wasn't by choice), it would seem equally silly. Silly, but not racist. Also, while it's true that white men have been responsible for significant racism and discrimination historically, things have obviously changed in more recent times. White men have become less racist and discriminating, and the racism and discrimination by other groups have become more clear. I think the problem is mostly that the white label was hijacked by white racists, and is unfortunately still associated with that group. "European" could perhaps be used instead, but in the conservative mindset that label is too closely associated with liberal policies. Also, a lot of (white) Brits seem to be under the delusion they are somehow not Europeans.

 

[Clueless Git]

It's because all those other people are members of minorities that have been and still are harassed, persecuted, and marginalized by white people. Especially white people who are straight, male and Christian. When members of minorities state they are proud to be a member of a particular minority, they are asserting self-worth, something that has historically been denied to them. When white men state they are proud to be white, they are perceived to be asserting superiority and dominance over others because of their historical role as persecutors, not as the persecuted.

Does that make any sense?

If you're not racist, Amy, then NOTHING to do with your own race, or the race of others, makes any sense at all.

 

[Clueless Git]

A white man is considered the default human being.

Exclusively a consideration of racists and sexists.

 

[SummerRain]

I think, for me, there are two issues that I think this topic brings up.

The first has been put better by Amy SF than I think I could have done. So I'll leave that there.

I think there's also a second issue - that many people in countries like the UK feel that the "politically correct" (I hate using that word) landscape changes so frequently that they don't know what the right thing to say is. I think there's a backlash of people criticising left/liberal politics/people (and the OP is a prime example of this) because in trying to be (and create a society that's more) inclusive and non-offensive, some people who are not clued up on current left-leaning politics feel like they're constantly being demonised/called out (or called racist, homophobic, etc) for saying the wrong thing, when that isn't their intention.

I think it's important to try to create a less discriminatory more inclusive/non-offensive society. I also think it's important to remember that not everybody who doesn't adhere to the current more inclusive/non-offensive language, or who hasn't though in depth/read in depth about certain political issues, has bad intentions. I think I am guilty of not listening to what people mean, when they say things that seem to me offensive, even though I know their intentions aren't to offend. And I'm guilty of being quick to correct peoples language rather than really listen to their ideas.

 

[Freesia]

Exclusively a consideration of racists and sexists.

Maybe it is, but it is how the world has largely been set up as to date. And people like the White Priders want to keep it that way.

 

[Envy]

If anyone wants to read examples of white pride, particularly white male pride as there are far more male posters there, you only need to peruse the Stormfront Forum. It is not a pretty picture, what is posted there. If you read some of the posts, you may still feel happy to be English/Scandinavian/a white American etc, but you definitely wont want to be associated with the people who proclaim White Pride as a movement. A lot of it ties in with Neo Nazism and the KKK and similar groups.

Oh, I've already been there a few times, and many of the times I have left the place with a sour taste in my mouth.

Of course, the forum is built similarly to VV, as in that it's composed of sub-forums like health, sports, cooking, high culture and so forth, so if you manage to ignore the parts about race and cultures, you'd probably find a few persons or more that you would be able to get along well with.