Searching for balance

[Oluwamuyiwa]

Hello everyone,

My name is Frank, I´m from SA and I´ve actually tried an ovolactovegetarian diet twice already, the first time I developed a sort of anemia, so I´ve been taken B12 supplementation since then, it´s recommended no matter your food regime anyway. I didn´t stick to it the second time because I got bored of the meals and sometimes I didn´t have time to cook and since I practice gymnastics I was afraid that I wouldn´t get the proper nutrition in order for my body to maintain its performance level.

Still, I don´t eat read meat, I actually don´t like them really, so I could describe myself as a flexitarian, as infamous as it might sound to you. During this vacations I leveled up my cooking game and I planned an eating schedule for two weeks, and there are only 3 days out of 14 where I´m required to use chicken or fish for my recipes. I think that´s progress, and I hope as I keep getting better at this I can do more complex preparations to steer clear of meat whatsoever.

Also, I know its unethical and polluting, I´ve done my research. Let´s just say I´ve chosen to be a monster, for the time being. But I hope I can improve my techniques with the help of ya´ll.

Thanks for reading, I´m glad there exists a community like this one .

Welcome to the club, glad to see you make progress, it's a step at a time, know your limits and make up for the lost nutrients and calories.

Hope to see you keep up the routine, and be an inspiration to us all.

Peace & Love
Cyril

 

[FoodMaster777]

Maybe the soil bacteria plays a role in maintaining the levels of bacteria in a cows stomach. but I simply speculate. I also think that diary cows that don't graze but just eat TMR, the TMR is fortified - but I don't know with what.

I need to do some research but this is what I had understood, rumiants get their B12 from the dirt in the grass, and then humans from animal sources, an even maybe the ancient human by consuming not washed fruits and vegetables. That´s why livestock have B12 deficiency nowadays and they´re suplemented as well, they´re not fed naturally anymore but with this processed feed.

 

[Lou]

I need to do some research but this is what I had understood, rumiants get their B12 from the dirt in the grass,

maybe the bacteria in the soil plays a role, but ruminants produce B12 in their guts - just like most mammals. However since their GI track is more complicated their food goes past the site of B12 absorption again.

an even maybe the ancient human by consuming not washed fruits and vegetables.

that's a maybe. not so sure that has been proven.

That´s why livestock have B12 deficiency nowadays and they´re suplemented as well, they´re not fed naturally anymore but with this processed feed.

I know TMR is fortified but I'm not sure with what. I suppose it can be looked up.

 

[alleycat]

G'day and welcome.

 

[bEt]

Hello, Frank, glad to meet you! May I offer you my congratulations on beginning your plant-based journey at such a young age? When I was your age, I'm not sure I was even aware of veganism. You have made a tremendous amount of progress, too, to be relying on chicken and fish so much less than you used to. I don't think too many people transition that quickly, and it is obvious that you are determined and committed. If everyone were as concious about their food choices as you are, the world would be a better place, in my opoinion.

I have a question that I ask almost everyone--have you ever tried out a nutrient tracking website like Cronometer or myfooddata.com?

By the way, about tofu: Another new member has a blog with a recipe for crispy tofu--it is made crispy by microwaving it.

Veggiepedia® - Learn To Go Green - Sustainability & Veganism

Veggiepedia.org is a website about sustainable living & veganism. Visit today to see top 10 vegan documentaries, charities & books!

www.veggiepedia.com

 

[bEt]

Your comment about anemia started me wondering . . .

I have a vague idea from somewhere that all the B vitamins work together, so I started to wonder: Do any other B vitamins besides folate and B12 play a role in red blood cell production?

I started off reading about B6 here:

Vitamin B6 Deficiency - StatPearls - NCBI Bookshelf (nih.gov)

"Pyridoxine has a role in cognitive development through neurotransmitter synthesis, immune function with interleukin-2 (IL-2) production, and hemoglobin formation."

I wondered what B6 could have to do with hemoglobin formation, so I looked around, and learned that B6 is needed to build something called porphyrins. A porphyrin is something that binds metal ions, and there is a porphyrin that binds the iron in hemoglobin.

So that's B6. What about B5? On the Linus Pauling Institute website, I read,

"Pantothenic acid — also known as vitamin B5 — is a water-soluble vitamin that is a precursor in the synthesis of coenzyme A."

Then here,
Succinyl Coenzyme A - an overview | ScienceDirect Topics
I read that
"The rate-limiting step in hepatic heme synthesis begins with the conversion of glycine and succinyl coenzyme A (CoA) to 5-aminolevulinic acid (ALA) by the action of ALA synthase (Fig. 77.5)."

But is succinyl-coenzyme A made from the coenzyme A that comes from B5? According to wikipedia,
"Succinyl-coenzyme A, abbreviated as succinyl-CoA ( / ˌsʌksɪnəlˌkoʊˈeɪ /) or SucCoA, is a thioester of succinic acid and coenzyme A ."
So it seems that in theory, if B5 got low enough, there could be some difficulty making enough healthy red blood cells to maintain optimum health.

What about riboflavin?
" There is reasonably good evidence that poor riboflavin status interferes with iron handling and contributes to the etiology of anemia when iron intakes are low. Various mechanisms for this have been proposed, including effects on the gastrointestinal tract that might compromise the handling of other nutrients. "
That's from this article:
Riboflavin (vitamin B-2) and health | The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition | Oxford Academic (oup.com)

Then this article mentioned,
Emerging roles for riboflavin in functional rescue of mitochondrial β-oxidation flavoenzymes - PubMed (nih.gov)
"In a few number of cases, riboflavin deficiency is associated with impaired oxidative folding, cell damage and impaired heme biosynthesis."

It seems there are many factors that go into making red blood cells.

Of course, worldwide the most commonly recognized anemia is iron-deficiency anemia. So iron is something to consider, too.

A hard-boiled egg has only 3% of the DV for iron. 16oz of milk has only 1%. On the other hand, a cup of lima beans has 25%. So I can see how a lacto-ovo vegetarian diet could be lower in iron than a strict vegetarian diet (which relies more on beans and pulses for protein).

 

[FoodMaster777]

Hello, Frank, glad to meet you! May I offer you my congratulations on beginning your plant-based journey at such a young age? When I was your age, I'm not sure I was even aware of veganism. You have made a tremendous amount of progress, too, to be relying on chicken and fish so much less than you used to. I don't think too many people transition that quickly, and it is obvious that you are determined and committed. If everyone were as concious about their food choices as you are, the world would be a better place, in my opoinion.

I have a question that I ask almost everyone--have you ever tried out a nutrient tracking website like Cronometer or myfooddata.com?

By the way, about tofu: Another new member has a blog with a recipe for crispy tofu--it is made crispy by microwaving it.

Veggiepedia® - Learn To Go Green - Sustainability & Veganism

Veggiepedia.org is a website about sustainable living & veganism. Visit today to see top 10 vegan documentaries, charities & books!

www.veggiepedia.com

I´ll defo check this recipe out, and I don´t really track my foods, I find it boring and of little help because it makes me see food as an obligation. I have a menu though, and I included a lot of vegetables .

Your comment about anemia started me wondering . . .

I have a vague idea from somewhere that all the B vitamins work together, so I started to wonder: Do any other B vitamins besides folate and B12 play a role in red blood cell production?

I started off reading about B6 here:

Vitamin B6 Deficiency - StatPearls - NCBI Bookshelf (nih.gov)

"Pyridoxine has a role in cognitive development through neurotransmitter synthesis, immune function with interleukin-2 (IL-2) production, and hemoglobin formation."

I wondered what B6 could have to do with hemoglobin formation, so I looked around, and learned that B6 is needed to build something called porphyrins. A porphyrin is something that binds metal ions, and there is a porphyrin that binds the iron in hemoglobin.

So that's B6. What about B5? On the Linus Pauling Institute website, I read,

"Pantothenic acid — also known as vitamin B5 — is a water-soluble vitamin that is a precursor in the synthesis of coenzyme A."

Then here,
Succinyl Coenzyme A - an overview | ScienceDirect Topics
I read that
"The rate-limiting step in hepatic heme synthesis begins with the conversion of glycine and succinyl coenzyme A (CoA) to 5-aminolevulinic acid (ALA) by the action of ALA synthase (Fig. 77.5)."

But is succinyl-coenzyme A made from the coenzyme A that comes from B5? According to wikipedia,
"Succinyl-coenzyme A, abbreviated as succinyl-CoA ( / ˌsʌksɪnəlˌkoʊˈeɪ /) or SucCoA, is a thioester of succinic acid and coenzyme A ."
So it seems that in theory, if B5 got low enough, there could be some difficulty making enough healthy red blood cells to maintain optimum health.

What about riboflavin?
" There is reasonably good evidence that poor riboflavin status interferes with iron handling and contributes to the etiology of anemia when iron intakes are low. Various mechanisms for this have been proposed, including effects on the gastrointestinal tract that might compromise the handling of other nutrients. "
That's from this article:
Riboflavin (vitamin B-2) and health | The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition | Oxford Academic (oup.com)

Then this article mentioned,
Emerging roles for riboflavin in functional rescue of mitochondrial β-oxidation flavoenzymes - PubMed (nih.gov)
"In a few number of cases, riboflavin deficiency is associated with impaired oxidative folding, cell damage and impaired heme biosynthesis."

It seems there are many factors that go into making red blood cells.

Of course, worldwide the most commonly recognized anemia is iron-deficiency anemia. So iron is something to consider, too.

A hard-boiled egg has only 3% of the DV for iron. 16oz of milk has only 1%. On the other hand, a cup of lima beans has 25%. So I can see how a lacto-ovo vegetarian diet could be lower in iron than a strict vegetarian diet (which relies more on beans and pulses for protein).

Wow, thank you, I´ll check into this B6 articles. It was B12 though, I was ovolactovegetarian, but my diet has always had a lot of beans, and we have a lot of beans in Colombia. Even now, I eat about one kilogram of beans every 3 days.

 

[bEt]

Thank you for your reply!
I think that's wonderful, that you get a lot of vegetables and plenty of beans--me, too.

I agree that tracking food intake can feel like a chore. I definitely don't do it every day, but once in a while, I'll take a bit of time, type in approximately what I ate in a day. I quickly skim over the results of how the vitamins, minerals, and amino acids add up. This gives me an idea of where I may need to supplement. For example, I'm usually a bit low on zinc.

Anything I supplement I do so in very small amounts by splitting tablets or pouring a very little bit out of a capsule. I do this because I don't want to get too much in my system, and because it saves me money--I don't have to buy supplements as often.

Of course, between your being very good at meal planning (I'm terribly sloppy about that), and your youth and high activity (therefore consuming more food), it may very well be that you'd not be low on anything, most days.

(and --I agree that a person can get by just fine without tofu. Although I enjoy it, I rarely buy it.)