Sexual Assault/Harassment/Misconduct

[Mischief]

If everyone that made actions such as Al Franken were to be eliminated from holding office we would quickly have a large majority of women! A very large majority!

Actually, when I think back on the men I have known throughout my life, the ones who would have done what Franken did would have been a small minority. That's also why I never thought dt's "locker room talk" excuse was compelling.

Maybe I've just known an unusually high number of decent men.

 

[Mischief]

Sen. Susan Collins (Maine) went further Sunday than most of her Republican colleagues in expressing worry about the sexual assault allegations against President Trump, saying they were one of the reasons she did not vote for him.

“Those allegations remain very disturbing,” Collins said in an interview on ABC’s “This Week With George Stephanopoulos.” She noted that she did not support Trump in the 2016 campaign in part because of news reports about women accusing him of unwanted touching or kissing.

With allegations emerging against officials from both political parties, few are like Collins — willing to discuss harassment within their own party’s ranks.

Rep. Jackie Speier (D-Calif.), who has been outspoken in condemning the harassment reporting process in Congress, told CBS’s John Dickerson on Sunday that the nation is experiencing a “huge cultural shift” when it comes to addressing sexual harassment.

If Trump were running today, she said, “I bet he would not be elected.”

But when asked how this changed standard might apply to former Democratic president Bill Clinton, Speier was less candid. She said that Clinton’s accusers “were not treated as they should have been” but did not go so far as to criticize Clinton.

Collins airs concern about harassment charges against the president

Senator Gillibrand has received blowback for openly criticizing Bill Clinton.

 

[Mischief]

There's a good piece in the Chicago Tribune about how we justify things in order to continue to support politicians whose agendas match our own: A Bill Clinton 'reckoning' for Democrats? Don't hold your breath.

 

[MadamSarcastra]

Inmates are using masturbation as a weapon. Female guards have had enough.

The guards claimed that male inmates regularly engage in “exhibitionist” masturbation in the presence of female guards, medical staff, and other jail personnel, sometimes aiming at them when they ejaculate; the inmates also grope women’s breasts, press their penises against women’s buttocks, throw feces and urine at them, make lewd comments about their physical appearance, proposition them for sexual favors, target them with sexual slurs, and/or threaten them with violence including rape and murder.

Male supervisors allegedly told female guards that the inmates’ disgusting behavior is what they had “signed up for.”

 

[Mischief]

Sex scandals are hitting Florida politics hard: 'Florida is on fire'

 

[silva]

There's a friggin photo.

P.S. I don't think he's a sexual predator, but is that really the standard we are going to set?

We're not going to g

Actually, when I think back on the men I have known throughout my life, the ones who would have done what Franken did would have been a small minority. That's also why I never thought dt's "locker room talk" excuse was compelling.

Maybe I've just known an unusually high number of decent men.

I'm sure the majority of women who knew Al felt he was a decent man. Most of the men I've known who have done such things at time were otherwise very decent men, who have been outspoken against predatory attacks. You can't know what's in someones head, but most people differentiate between things offensive and things vile.
Ok, now we know about Franken, what about all the others who haven't had women come forward? If we would unseat Franken, the predators should be thrown in jail, and labeled sex offenders. That won't happen. It risks being nothing more than a witch hunt

Most white men in government have been caught with some kind of racial profiling, or comments, even Joe Biden. Sometimes I think it's better to strong with consequences for strong actions. Yes, there are so many

 

[Mischief]

Eight women have told The Washington Post that longtime television host Charlie Rose made unwanted sexual advances toward them, including lewd phone calls, walking around naked in their presence, or groping their breasts, buttocks or genital areas.

The women were employees or aspired to work for Rose at the “Charlie Rose” show from the late 1990s to as recently as 2011. They ranged in age from 21 to 37 at the time of the alleged encounters. Rose, 75, whose show airs on PBS, also co-hosts “CBS This Morning” and is a contributing correspondent for “60 Minutes.”

There are striking commonalities in the accounts of the women, each of whom described their interactions with Rose in multiple interviews with The Post. For all of the women, reporters interviewed friends, colleagues or family members who said the women had confided in them about aspects of the incidents. Three of the eight spoke on the record.

Eight women say Charlie Rose sexually harassed them — with nudity, groping and lewd calls

 

[silva]

Quite frankly, there are women who are excluded from these behaviors--the ones men do in what they see as jest. There are women who also see it as funny and play along.
Come on, think of all the movies that literally feature this behavior! Right up to today!

 

[silva]

Eight women say Charlie Rose sexually harassed them — with nudity, groping and lewd calls

 

[Mischief]

Quite frankly, there are women who are excluded from these behaviors--the ones men do in what they see as jest. There are women who also see it as funny and play along.
Come on, think of all the movies that literally feature this behavior! Right up to today!

Oh, I agree it's a societal problem as much as it's an individual problem, what people consider to be "funny."

I have my own stories of sexual misconduct experienced. And I am not one who assumes that because it wasn't done to me by X, X didn't do it to others. I haven't lived in a vacuum with my eyes and ears firmly shut; women with whom I worked told me about their experiences. We tended to warn each other.

I still don't buy into the"all men do it" meme.

As I said above, I don't think that what Franken did warrants his removal from office; his is the least troubling of the stories that have come out recently. However, that does not mean his behavior should be excused.

 

[Mischief]

Charlie Rose sounds almost exactly like a boss I had when I was young. Pretty much the same gamut of behavior.

What a disappointment.

 

[silva]

I've known many "charlie roses'"

 

[silva]

And...how many women LIKE those types of men?
I can remember so many guys I thought were such intolerable wimps who rallied against those types of sexual innuendos. yeah, sexual innuendos! I didn't see it as misogony. Hell, the 80's were Madonna inspired women getting in the throes! We weren't victims, we were participants.
I fear there is some regret....

 

[Mischief]

@silva
Just to clarify - are you basically saying, "What's the big deal? This is how men act."?

 

[Mischief]

And...how many women LIKE those types of men?

There are people of color who voted for dt. That doesn't alter the fact that he and his administration are racist slime.

 

[silva]

@silva
Just to clarify - are you basically saying, "What's the big deal? This is how men act."?

@silva
Just to clarify - are you basically saying, "What's the big deal? This is how men act."?

I think it was pretty much accepted behavior and that a LOT of woman played right along. Honestly many people are very wishy-washy about how they feel

 

[silva]

There are people of color who voted for dt. That doesn't alter the fact that he and his administration are racist slime.

No, of course not. I'm making a distinction between what I consider intolerable actions and inexcusable actions and those that really blurred the lines and have reformed and apologized.
The poc who stand by rump are much like that Janet P- Moores friend and supporter. There are many white men in office who have done and said things racist that everyone has forgiven and moved on

 

[Mischief]

I think it was pretty much accepted behavior and that a LOT of woman played right along. Honestly many people are very wishy-washy about how they feel

I don't think it was "accepted" behavior. It was "tolerated" (i.e., people tried to work around it) because if you said anything, you would be labelled "a troublemaker", and you would lose your job and most probably your career.

For example, the boss who was so much like Charlie Rose (in so many details): He (I'll call him JH) was one of four partners, and the most powerful of the four. (Power being the ability to bring in clients and therefore money to the firm.) One of the other partners was also a complete *******, but not in a sexual way. Another was a racist but not a jerk in a sexual way. The fourth was very professional and very good at the job, and I learned a lot from him.

Shortly after I got the job, the only other female professional (TM) in the office warned me to never get into a car with JH, and the reasons why. (I was successful at that except for one instance.) As other young women were hired, I also warned them accordingly, and tried to run interference for female support staff as well.

TM was the only one of us who was single, so she got the lewd middle of the night phone calls, and was subjected to the most overt behavior. You would probably say that she "played along". I would say that she was careful not to make waves, because it would have hurt her career. As it was, she was the only one who managed to stick it out long enough to eventually poach several of JH's largest clients, which helped her career tremendously. I don't think she was wishy-washy about how she felt. She was disgusted by JH, but she also knew how she needed to act to get to where she wanted to go. It was the price she had to pay for being female.

 

[silva]

Oh geez, that is NOT what I meant! That's the other end.
I was giving guys much like how i see Al Frankens actions, in what at least he felt, was simply good natured and could be played with. NOT power trips where fear is involved
I got the impression, mostly from Sweeten herself, that if it were openly discussed at the time, it would have been resolved. I felt her coming out was after years of being unsure of just how she felt- like maybe she couldn't be sure whether or not she was ok, and now the table got tipped

 

[silva]

I'm having such flashbacks of everything from good times at bars with friends, to the many times it was NOT funny, NOT ok, and very scary.