Should Men Wear Make-up?

[Muggle]

Actually, I don't why I'm bothering with it. It's been explained in other threads by posters who are far more eloquent than I am and you still don't understand it. So screw it, I can't be bothered.

 

[Freesia]

I do like the lush makeup range. I have been looking at their lip colours. One day I will get one. Nice eye colours too but my eyes only suit a limited range of colours: light blue, silver, gold, beiges, some pinks, brown and green. And I tend to go for powder shadows over liquid. Right now I use my urban decay palette, it is huge. I should probably wear makeup more, only problem is I keep forgetting to take it off and I wake up in it.

 

[Ansciess]

you still don't understand it

I understand just fine what you are saying. I just don't think it's a good argument, and I think you refuse or are unable to see what is being said to you in response, and ascribing things to me I haven't said.

 

[Calliegirl]

I've never worn make-up because the beauty industry says I should. I have worn it because I liked how it looked and enjoyed experimenting with different styles. I admit, I have also worn a certain style because someone I was dating liked that look. I didn't wear it all the time though, just special occasions, since it was a somewhat glamorous look. Now I rarely wear anything more than mascara because I'm lazy.

 

[Muggle]

I understand just fine what you are saying. I just don't think it's a good argument, and I think you refuse or are unable to see what is being said to you in response, and ascribing things to me I haven't said.

Uh no. I've read your posts in all the other threads. I think you're the one who is refusing to see what is being said to you in response. Which is the fact that you are attacking women for their choices no matter how much you claim you aren't.

Although I suppose I must thank you for one thing. It was your posts, and a few others, that made me realise exactly what is wrong with the feminist movement and it also reiterated my decision to stop identifying as a feminist. No way do I was to be associated with things like the content of your posts.

Anyway, like I said, I really can't be bothered with this. If you do want to try to understand (which I doubt you do but hey ho) then the posts in the choice feminism thread and the changing names when married thread that explain to you why you are attacking women will help you see what you are doing. But I doubt it because you refused to see it in those threads but oh well.
I'm out of this now.

 

[yally]

Uh no. I've read your posts in all the other threads. I think you're the one who is refusing to see what is being said to you in response. Which is the fact that you are attacking women for their choices no matter how much you claim you aren't.

Although I suppose I must thank you for one thing. It was your posts, and a few others, that made me realise exactly what is wrong with the feminist movement and it also reiterated my decision to stop identifying as a feminist. No way do I was to be associated with things like the content of your posts.

Anyway, like I said, I really can't be bothered with this. If you do want to try to understand (which I doubt you do but hey ho) then the posts in the choice feminism thread and the changing names when married thread that explain to you why you are attacking women will help you see what you are doing. But I doubt it because you refused to see it in those threads but oh well.
I'm out of this now.

It's ok, breathe

 

[Ansciess]

you are attacking women for their choices no matter how much you claim you aren't.

Untrue.

This reminds me of a meat eater who takes great offense when someone talks generally about the politics and practices of animal agriculture because they take it as a personal affront.
"This is what happens to calves on a dairy farm..."
"How dare you! You're attacking my choice to drink milk!"
No way of getting through that wall of defensiveness.

it also reiterated my decision to stop identifying as a feminist

Feminism is a political movement towards the equality of women. If you can't manage or don't believe in political/class analysis (which is fine), then I think you're right - it doesn't make sense to identify yourself as a feminist.

I'm out of this now.

You said you were out of it before, but it seems like you really want to get in the last word. Normally if people don't want to debate, they just stop debating, not keep announcing that they can't be bothered with it while trying to get in their points.

 

[RabbitLuvr]

If someone walks up to you and says "you should feel bad about yourself for wearing make-up," I agree with you.

If someone makes a critique of the beauty industry, including make-up, and you take it personally and assume someone is trying to make you feel like a bad person, I don't agree with you.

Well, you see, I have, at various times in my life, been told to my face that I either needed to wear makeup (in my non-makeup fazes), or that I really shouldn't be wearing makeup (in my heavy makeup fazes), or that I should be wearing it differently.

I've been next to people bad mouthing others over their makeup.

My cousin has been verbally abused because he sometimes wears lipstick, mascara, eyeshadow, or eyeliner. He's been threatened with physical violence because of it, though when he tries to take them up on it they usually back off. The last thing those bullies want is to get their *** kicked by a queer dude in makeup.

People do try to make others feel bad over their makeup choices.

I'm totally cool with someone who says they don't care to wear makeup. But when they start projecting it on to others and complaining that it's unnecessary and *no one* should ever wear it (as has been done in this thread), that's makeup shaming. It's ********.

 

[Moll Flanders]

Comparing a person who steals the milk from an animal to a person who decides whether or not to smear cosmetics on their own face.

This article is annoying the crap out of me. They are talking about Gwenyth Paltrows vegetarian lifestyle. She isnt even a vegetarian! But now all these people are calling her an arrogant vegan. So annoying. I remember they did that with Gillian Keith too! When will the world learn that a pesca-pollotarian (or a pescatarian) is not a vegetarian?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/...icaprio_n_3131286.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular

I actually thought she was a vegan for a while but I think her husband is actually a vegetarian.

 

[Amy SF]

Well, you see, I have, at various times in my life, been told to my face that I either needed to wear makeup (in my non-makeup fazes), or that I really shouldn't be wearing makeup (in my heavy makeup fazes), or that I should be wearing it differently.

I've been next to people bad mouthing others over their makeup.

My cousin has been verbally abused because he sometimes wears lipstick, mascara, eyeshadow, or eyeliner. He's been threatened with physical violence because of it, though when he tries to take them up on it they usually back off. The last thing those bullies want is to get their *** kicked by a queer dude in makeup.

People do try to make others feel bad over their makeup choices.

I'm totally cool with someone who says they don't care to wear makeup. But when they start projecting it on to others and complaining that it's unnecessary and *no one* should ever wear it (as has been done in this thread), that's makeup shaming. It's ********.

Stating an opinion about the wearing of makeup is not the same as "makeup shaming". Making generalized statements such as no-one should wear makeup is not the same as poking one's finger into somebody else's chest and telling them they shouldn't (or should) wear makeup. I do abhor bullies who try to force their opinions on others, but I also think people should be able to express their opinions without being told that they're "shaming" people.

 

[RabbitLuvr]

Stating an opinion about the wearing of makeup is not the same as "makeup shaming". Making generalized statements such as no-one should wear makeup is not the same as poking one's finger into somebody else's chest and telling them they shouldn't (or should) wear makeup. I do abhor bullies who try to force their opinions on others, but I also think people should be able to express their opinions without being told that they're "shaming" people.

There's a difference between saying you don't care for something and saying no one should ever do that thing you don't like because *you* think it's pointless.

 

[RabbitLuvr]

And with that, I'm out. **** this thread.

 

[Ansciess]

Comparing a person who steals the milk from an animal to a person who decides whether or not to smear cosmetics on their own face.

I'm not sure if you're purposely trying to misunderstand that analogy, or if you just don't. But I think it's cool that you just called milk drinkers thieves.

 

[Ansciess]

There's a difference between saying you don't care for something and saying no one should ever do that thing you don't like because *you* think it's pointless.

I can agree in theory, but I've seen numerous times on this kind of thread that even when someone carefully says they don't prefer something and the reason is because it comes out of a sexist practice, there's still the defensive freak out.

 

[Renee1]

For those you that care about non-heterosexuals, it might interest you to know that shaming and erasure of femme people is a massive issue in LGBTQ circles.

Femmes are routinely erased and shamed by their communities because heteronormative prejudices against them seep in and become a part of homonormative culture. Absolutely sickening.

MOD NOTE: This post has been edited.

 

[mlp]

And I think it's absolutely sickening that you use "shaming" as a code word for every single thing with which you disagree.

In fact, you do your best to shame every viewpoint that happens not to agree with your very limited and insular views.

MOD NOTE: Quote of edited post has been deleted.

 

[kibbleforlola]

What gets my goat more than anything is women who claim to be feminists who then do everything they can do to tear down other women for...wait for it...acting in a traditionally feminine manner. Just...I dont even. What ever happened to solidarity, sister?

I will get my degee on feminism, and I will continue to collect red lipsticks. Tyvm.

Anyway, who was it that said something about lush lipsticks? I have the vintage red one...cherry, or something like that. I highly recommend. They're very nice.

 

[Freesia]

The lush lip colours here are sort of liquid ones. There are coloured lip glosses but a lot of them have beezwax.

 

[Pickle Juice]

Sorry. I wasnt trying to out anyone, I was just surprised.

No problem Freesia, I could tell. It's just that it was easier to delete totally than to edit it.

 

[Renee1]

“In a world where masculinity is assumed to represent strength and power, those who are butch and boyish are able to contemplate their identities within the relative safety of those connotations. In contrast, those of us who are feminine are forced to define ourselves on our own terms and develop their own sense of self-worth. It takes guts, determination and fearlessness for those of us who are feminine to lift ourselves up out of the inferior meanings that are constantly being projected onto us. If you require any evidence that femininity can be more fierce and dangerous than masculinity, all you need to do is ask the average man to hold your handbag or a bouquet of flowers for a minute and watch how far away he holds them from his body. Or tell him that you would like to put your lipstick on him and watch how fast he runs off in the other direction. In a world where masculinity is respected and femininity is regularly dismissed, it takes an enormous amount of strength and confidence for any person, whether female- or male-bodied, to embrace their feminine self.” - Julia Serrano

Wear or don't makeup, whatever your gender identity might be. Both are good. If someone finds something empowering, they really should do it because empowered people are the only ones who are going to be able to make anything better in the world.

Shame and heterosexual assumption are particular pet hatreds of mine, so those tend to be what gets me to speak up in a non-safe space such as this. Though please don't try to tell me that speaking up for those who are oppressed and fighting against those who would continue to oppress them is about me not being able to accept other points of view because that is a gross misrepresentation. When it comes to oppressed factions of society you are not a part of, it is of particular importance that you listen far more than you speak because you simply don't have the frame of reference to understand the minutia of those communities.