Should we censor/avoid offensive words?

[Clueless Git]

Just on a personal note, could you try to use another word for Omnis? The word that this is a play on is a particularly offensive one in my book for many reasons.

Whilst not wanting to offend m'fellow veg-heads I am a bit wary when people want to reduce the richness of language by word elimination, Aery.

I might go as far as saying that censoring other peoples use of words for personal reasons is, for many reasons, offensive itself.

Obviously I do know that 'meatard' is not a proper word. I simply cannot think of another word that sums up so richly the "delay or hold back in terms of progress or development", thought process wise, that meat induces in the vast majority of omnis though.

 

[ledboots]

Whilst not wanting to offend m'fellow veg-heads I am a bit wary when people want to reduce the richness of language by word elimination, Aery.

I might go as far as saying that censoring other peoples use of words for personal reasons is, for many reasons, offensive itself.

Obviously I do know that 'meatard' is not a proper word. I simply cannot think of another word that sums up so richly the "delay or hold back in terms of progress or development", thought process wise, that meat induces in the vast majority of omnis though.

Most of us amend our word choices in certain situations, and I'm sure the English language will survive just fine without your made-up word that is insulting to a vulnerable segment of the population.

 

[AeryFairy]

Whilst not wanting to offend m'fellow veg-heads I am a bit wary when people want to reduce the richness of language by word elimination, Aery.

I might go as far as saying that censoring other peoples use of words for personal reasons is, for many reasons, offensive itself.

Obviously I do know that 'meatard' is not a proper word. I simply cannot think of another word that sums up so richly the "delay or hold back in terms of progress or development", thought process wise, that meat induces in the vast majority of omnis though.

I would hardly consider what I said 'censorship' - I'm no governing body, for one, and I didn't edit or delete your post. I wasn't even speaking as a mod.

You can argue all you like about the 'true' definition of the R-word, I'm familiar with the definition you quoted, but the fact remains that when you use that word the vast majority of people are going to hear it as a particularly nasty word for someone with a disability. I do not think that not using this word (particularly in an insulting context) is in any way detrimental to language as a whole.

 

[Clueless Git]

Most of us amend our word choices in certain situations, and I'm sure the English language will survive just fine without your made-up word that is insulting to a vulnerable segment of the population.

I remain wary.

One reason I remain wary is this: We used to have the 'N' word. That was offensive so we used the word 'black'. That became offensive (Bah-bah rainbow sheep - FFS!) so we used the word 'coloured'. That became offensive and I have no idea how far through the dictionary the PC police have trawled to find an alternative word that will have to removed from the English language by this time next week.

M'other half works in a PC environment. They used to have 'brain storming' meetings. 'Brain Storm' is, apparently, possibly offensive to epyleptics (sp?) as they have 'brain storms' so now they have to 'free cloud'/'blue sky'/<insert PC nonsense of the day here>.

I do appreciate the 'idiot compassion' behind not using proper words once they have attached negative connotations Ledders. The problem is NOT the words though.

The problem seems more that whatever word replaces the last one also eventualy comes under attack.

Problem behind that appears to be simply that where people have nastiness towards a 'thing' that nastiness simply attaches to whatever word for that 'thing' happens to be currently in use.

E.g. to call someone 'special' used to mean they were, errrrr ..., special. To call someone 'special' now carries the risk of getting punched straight in the teeth.

 

[Clueless Git]

I would hardly consider what I said 'censorship' - I'm no governing body, for one, and I didn't edit or delete your post. I wasn't even speaking as a mod.

You can argue all you like about the 'true' definition of the R-word, I'm familiar with the definition you quoted, but the fact remains that when you use that word the vast majority of people are going to hear it as a particularly nasty word for someone with a disability. I do not think that not using this word (particularly in an insulting context) is in any way detrimental to language as a whole.

With apologies for my woefull writing style, Aery ...

I'm only trying to explain that the elimination of perfectly innocent/accurate words 'hi-jacked' by the nasty minded is a never ending linguistic retreat.

Claiming the words back into proper context and usage would be more the direction I would like to see.

 

[SummerRain]

Mod post: this discussion has been moved out of "Can veg*ans cook with animal products", to keep that thread on topic, and because I thought it was an interesting discussion for the debate forum.

 

[SummerRain]

In some ways I agree with you CluelessGit. It seems that, for some words, no matter what new word you use people are going to use it as an insult. Most words to disabled people originally were meant to be medical/non-offensive, but as people used them as insults, they became offensive. It seems like a loosing battle. It also seems unfair to presume people mean to be offensive when they use the "wrong" word, I come from a small, >95% white town, where lots of people use words I consider offensive to refer to black people. But they don't mean to be offensive, it's just they don't know that it's not the "right" word to use, they don't know what word they should use. That doesn't mean it isn't offensive, but it means that they're not racist just for using a racist word. Intent is important.

On the other hand though, I think people have a right to be called words that they prefer and do not find insulting. Obviously you're not always in a position to ask, but if somebody says "I find that offensive, please don't call me that" I think that's their prerogative. If the general consensus is that a word is offensive to a group of people, I don't want to use it. I don't want to insult people, and if I can word things differently to avoid doing so, I will do, because I care about how I make people feel. You don't need to use words like "the R word", you can say "idiot" or a similar word which has the same sentiment but none of the offensive connotations.

Furthermore, some words are steeped in oppressive, discriminatory history - lots of offensive words are offensive to people because they are associated with discrimination, insults and personal attacks. I think these words in particular should be avoided, because they can often bring up painful memories for people, and you just can't shed that history and associations that come with that word. If you use those words, you're choosing to use words that you know are offensive and painful for people to hear, you know how they might be interpreted - so no mater what you said, your intent is at best thoughtless and at worst offensive and unkind. (I am using "you" in the general sense here, I do not mean that "metard" is one of those words, or that anybody here uses them!).

 

[ledboots]

It isn't a word, you invented it, and it is a stupid word regardless of your worry about political correctness overtaking the planet. IT IS NOT A WORD.

 

[Clueless Git]

... It isn't a word, you invented it ...

I love using fact to contradict divinely inspired knowledge, Ledders.

Therfore it gives me great pleasure to contradict knowledge, which can only have been divinely inspired, with the fact that credit for invention of the word belongs to some other than me.

I absolutely adore it, word or not, though.

It sums up a certain meat based pattern of delayed or held back (in terms of progress or development) thinking absoooolutely to a 'T'.

Quite surprised, given the profilic examples of 'meatardary' people happily post in the many 'Dumb Things Omni's Say' type threads, that is has proven so contraversial though.

 

[Mischief]

insulting to a vulnerable segment of the population.

Painful as well to those of us who care about individuals within that vulnerable segment.

OTOH, people who continue to do it despite knowing the effect tell us quite a lot about themselves by that persistence, and there's a certain value in that.

 

[Spang]

Should we censor/avoid offensive words?

It depends on the ******* word.

 

[kazyeeqen]

We change our language all the time, it's not that hard to call groups by the term by which they want to be called, even if it changes every... ten years or so? I think most people can keep up with that, if they pay attention and correct themselves when they find they are in error of the most current convention of describing people who are different than themselves. It's not like we get fined if we're wrong, we just blush and say 'Oh' and then next time we say the appropriate thing.

People don't have little freak outs when some fashionable slang gets old and stops being used, like we should always use the same words for things all the time. Things change.

Someone today said something about 'Siamese' twins and I said, 'conjoined' and he said he was no good at being PC. But he'll probably use conjoined next time and it was that easy for him. Once you know, why would you not want to use the word that isn't offensive?

 

[Clueless Git]

In some ways I agree with you CluelessGit. It seems that, for some words, no matter what new word you use people are going to use it as an insult. Most words to disabled people originally were meant to be medical/non-offensive, but as people used them as insults, they became offensive.

There's a problem that I would find, am finding, very hard to articulate behind that one, SR.

Something along the lines of an unlikelihood of anyone taking offence at other people jibing things which they do not find at all offensive themselves.

I suspect there maybe a touch of the old "The lady doth protest too much, methinks", sometimes, lurking behind peoples outrage.

I'm damn sure that it is far easier, and far safer, to wage a war against words than it is to wage a war of words against the real root cause of the problem (ignorance in people) though.

 

[Mischief]

Nasty mindedness like continuing to use a word that the people with respect to whom it is being used find offensive?

 

[Clueless Git]

Painful as well to those of us who care about individuals within that vulnerable segment.

I would need an awfull lot of convincing that changing the names of vunerable segments does anything of significance for individuals within those those vunerable segments at all.

I wouldn't need any convincing whatsoever that such 'pus-dabbing' works wonders for people outside of those segments who would rather not delve right into the pus-pissing festering sores, mind.

 

[kibbleforlola]

It seem to me that people who whine and complain about the "pc police" really just want to be as hurtful and mean as possible, and display prejudice* and have the privilege of not being called out on it. When they are called out, it's "omg I'm being discriminated against! Free speech!" Give me a ******* break.

 

[Clueless Git]

Nasty mindedness like continuing to use a word that the people with respect to whom it is being used find offensive?

Sorry, edited that one already.

Decided ignorance, out of which both nasty mindedness (and 'idiot compassion') is borne, was a better term.

 

[Clueless Git]

It seem to me ...

Things aren't always as they seem, either to you or to anyone of us, Kibble.

Sometimes they are and sometimes they aren't.

There's a process for finding out which is which and to that process somethings are more of a hindrance than they are a help.

 

[kibbleforlola]

I've asked you before and I'm asking you now, please don't call me kibble. The fact that you continue to ignore my request just proves that you don't give a **** about anyone else.

You can come up with as many gibberish phrases as you want, you are still in the wrong.

 

[Clueless Git]

You can come up with as many gibberish phrases as you want, you are still in the wrong.

I admire the simplicity of your system for establishing right from wrong.

You won't take offence if I simply say that it is not a system that works particularly well for me?