Should vegans grow vibrant beautiful meadows instead of ugly barren lawns because mowing a lawn probably kills insects? Or am I confusing veganism with Jainism?
What's your take on insects?
- Thread starter chickenmammalove
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More reasons than just insects. typical grass lawns are horrid for many reasons. They're just really stupid.
I want to do something else, but have no idea what's realistic. For the front yard I'd like to see just flowers, bushes, and I guess some kind of spreading flat ground cover?
I can never keep a mower running right. I spent sooooo much time taking mine apart last year!
At least here some plants that covers the ground quick are cerastium tomentosum, clovers and glechoma hederacea. Shady and moist areas can be covered with moss, dry and sunny areas could be covered with pebbles and succulents for example. Maybe a bond and berry bushes for birds? Rowan, cherry or apple trees? And insect hotels? Now, I don't know what would be realistic, but I just get excited when I think about gardens.More reasons than just insects. typical grass lawns are horrid for many reasons. They're just really stupid.
I want to do something else, but have no idea what's realistic. For the front yard I'd like to see just flowers, bushes, and I guess some kind of spreading flat ground cover?
I can never keep a mower running right. I spent sooooo much time taking mine apart last year!
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Live and let live, I say, when possible that is. This was not possible in the case of Veganite vs. Wasp Nest. Unfortunately the wasp nest was by my front door of my house. I am semi-allergic to stings, so this was a huge problem. I researched non-evasive removal, but sadly it was not possible in this case. They had nested under a concrete foundation. It just wasn't possible to relocate them. So I tried the passive approach, but at the end of the day I became a killer vegan. It's true! Call me what you will.
I think there's a simple line here; it requires a little common sense, which isn't always that common. As for the mosquito on my arm, I will slap it without hesitation. Again, common sense, and my two cents on the matter.
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I think there's a simple line here; it requires a little common sense, which isn't always that common. As for the mosquito on my arm, I will slap it without hesitation. Again, common sense, and my two cents on the matter.
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I just learned that lemon balm underneath apple tree repels the pests that could harm the three and the harvest.
Oh-HO... you've touched on something I know about intimately. (Tom takes off his Easter bonnet and puts on his botanist and entomologist hats) Glechoma hederacea is also known as ground ivy (but it's in the mint family). It's actually quite attractive, with a tidy creeping habit and a profusion of small bluish-purplish flowers. But it sometimes has the larva of a small beetle, fly, or moth- I'm not sure which- feeding on it. You can tell the larvae are there because they live in swellings called galls, which are formed when the larvae feed. It was spreading too rapidly, and I didn't want to pull the plants which had larvae feeding in them- so I started eradicating the Glechoma early, before the larvae had started feeding. But I kept some of the plants and started an indoor terrarium with them last summer. They're doing very well.
But yes- lawns are kind of pointless unless you like to lounge on them. I plan to keep some grass, but am planting other things: I planted some of my lawn with vegetables, but when I mow it, I use a non-motorized mower- the kind with the cylindrical blades. I always see lots of small insects flying around, so I think it's much less lethal to small critters than a motorized mower. I'm learning how to sharpen the blades myself because the hardware store said their sharpener quit.
Lou
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I'm not in favor of lawns either.
they use a lot of water, and fertilizer, and pesticides. Plus the lawn mower (unless its electric) burns fossil fuels.
However, Lawns are maybe not as bad as they seem at first glance.
Although there is some debate on it, lawns sequester carbon. and quite a bit. since it mostly sequesters the carbon underground - maybe better than bushes or trees. So they might be actually good for the environment. but pretty much only if you grow an orgainic lawn and have an electric lawnmower.
Here in California some people like replacing their lawns with clover. there is some weeding necessary - but little to no moving. And fertilizers and herbicides aren't necessary.
there are some other great ideas if you want to get rid of your lawn.
elemental.green
www.bobvila.com
www.cnps.org
Oh, hey here is my sister's house.
they use a lot of water, and fertilizer, and pesticides. Plus the lawn mower (unless its electric) burns fossil fuels.
However, Lawns are maybe not as bad as they seem at first glance.
Although there is some debate on it, lawns sequester carbon. and quite a bit. since it mostly sequesters the carbon underground - maybe better than bushes or trees. So they might be actually good for the environment. but pretty much only if you grow an orgainic lawn and have an electric lawnmower.
Here in California some people like replacing their lawns with clover. there is some weeding necessary - but little to no moving. And fertilizers and herbicides aren't necessary.
there are some other great ideas if you want to get rid of your lawn.
10 Easy, Low-Maintenance Lawn Alternatives
Let's face it. Lawns are fussy, and they're surprisingly not very eco-friendly. Luckily, we're sharing 10 easy and beautiful low maintenance lawn alternatives.
elemental.green
18 Easy Grass Alternatives for Your Lawn
Have the itch to ditch your high-maintenance lawn? These grass replacement ideas can help you save water, money, and endless hours on yard upkeep.
www.bobvila.com
Alternatives to Lawns - California Native Plant Society
Did you know you can use native plants to create any design aesthetic? Many people have no idea what to put in place of their lawn, so here are some ideas to get you started!
www.cnps.org
Oh, hey here is my sister's house.
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Lou
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I didn't know the English name for it so thank you. But I started to wonder why it was necessary to get rid of the insects? I know that some insects spread plant diseases and when they munch away the growth, it can sometimes look bad. But I'm ignorant and would love to know more.
Anyway, it's really nice that you were able to salvage some of the ground ivy. Quite fascinating idea to put them into terrarium! I bet they are joy to the eye.
By the way, creating a habitat for birds helps with pest control (this is one of the reasons why I got so excited about bonds and berry bushes). The ideal garden takes care of itself: when the habitat is right, there are insects, and then the small birds will come and when the small birds come, the larger ones come as well. Owls are good when dealing with moles. Planting trees and bushes are good for birds, but also for creating partial shade and protection from the wind for the plants.
Water features might also attract snakes (also rock piles attract them and rock piles attract all sort of reptiles) and toads, both are good with controlling problematic creatures like unwanted insects, rodents and moles.
Wasps and some beetles are also good especially when dealing with unwanted larva. The beetles like straw mulch. Wasps seem to make their nests on roofs and trees and they stay in the same place year after year.
Jamie in Chile
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While the vegan definition may not prohibit killing, and leaves it for each vegan to decide, I think the spirit of vegan ethics arguably implies to avoid doing so unless really necessary (e.g. self defence).
With regards insect sentience, we can think about the vegan attitude to seafood without eyes which is to give the benefit of the chance just incase.
I think the post by Strange Otter is well thought out and very compassionate.
I don’t see how we can be sure that killing 1,000 insects in a lifetime just because they entered your house is better or worse than killing a dog for the same reason. From their point of view, they can’t understand that this is your territory.
That being said, you do need to consider health concerns and poisonous insects.
We have ant infestations and I found the solution is remove the food and block the access point to the house and they disappear.
I think it many cases humans kill insects or animals not because it’s the only way but because killing is easier, cheaper or faster than gentle removal. However, depends on the case.
To be honest though, I have at times failed to meet my own standards.
With regards insect sentience, we can think about the vegan attitude to seafood without eyes which is to give the benefit of the chance just incase.
I think the post by Strange Otter is well thought out and very compassionate.
I don’t see how we can be sure that killing 1,000 insects in a lifetime just because they entered your house is better or worse than killing a dog for the same reason. From their point of view, they can’t understand that this is your territory.
That being said, you do need to consider health concerns and poisonous insects.
We have ant infestations and I found the solution is remove the food and block the access point to the house and they disappear.
I think it many cases humans kill insects or animals not because it’s the only way but because killing is easier, cheaper or faster than gentle removal. However, depends on the case.
To be honest though, I have at times failed to meet my own standards.
Jamie in Chile
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On the lawn topic, I once did a thread on another forum called "is it immoral to mow the lawn"? I can't remember if we're allowed to post links to other vegan forums (any moderators reading this?) but if you google that, including the quotation marks, you can find a long thread if anyone's interested. To cut a long story short, I think that mowing the lawn reduces insect, bird etc habitat, and therefore will cause less of them to live and thrive, so it may actually be preferable to not have a low cut, regularly cut perfect green lawn.
Lou
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I think its a little more complicated than that. But certainly allowing the grass to get a couple of feet high is going to provide great cover for larger animals. I'm pretty sure that cutting grass promotes growth so you would have more growth and more carbon absorption from the atmosphere. but then lawn clippings decompose and release carbon dioxide. So maybe it makes no difference.
I was walking around yesterday and I saw another yard that went without a lawn. I really like this one.
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Jamie in Chile
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The insects weren't causing problems. It's just that the ground ivy was getting out of control, and if I didn't pull it up early in the year, the gall makers would die when I did the weeding. The non-motorized mower I use isn't perfect in this respect (last year a katydid was killed- they're large, as grasshoppers go, but I didn't see this one in time). But I'm certain that far fewer lawn insects are injured than if I mowed with a gasoline or electric mower.
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More about Glechoma hederacea, also known as Ground Ivy (and Creeping Charly, and a few other non-scientific names)...
Where I live, the sidewalks usually don't border the street. There is usually a strip of grass, about 2 feet ( .66 meters?) wide between the sidewalk and the curb; some people call this area the Hellstrip because plants often find it hard to grow there. It's kind of a bother to mow- but on top of this, the local utility company had to dig this area up to replace the utility pipes. The grass hadn't been growing well anyway- so instead of having the company re-seed it to grass, I rounded up the Glechoma and planted it in this area. Now it's taken over this spot in front of my house. It grows low to the ground, doesn't need mowing, and looks as good as the grass did. It still tries to get out of control, but the surrounding sidewalk and curb/street do a great job of confining it.
Where I live, the sidewalks usually don't border the street. There is usually a strip of grass, about 2 feet ( .66 meters?) wide between the sidewalk and the curb; some people call this area the Hellstrip because plants often find it hard to grow there. It's kind of a bother to mow- but on top of this, the local utility company had to dig this area up to replace the utility pipes. The grass hadn't been growing well anyway- so instead of having the company re-seed it to grass, I rounded up the Glechoma and planted it in this area. Now it's taken over this spot in front of my house. It grows low to the ground, doesn't need mowing, and looks as good as the grass did. It still tries to get out of control, but the surrounding sidewalk and curb/street do a great job of confining it.
Lou
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My friend did an excellent job removing her front lawn. She hardscaped it first with many big rocks, ponds x 2, plus statues/fountains, etc. She then carefully selected shrubs, plants, and flowers, that would give the place character, but were also low maintenance, and wow did she succeed! I must admit I thought she was a bit crazy when she first started ripping up her front lawn, but now that its had a couple years to grow in and mature it looks absolutely amazing.
All the little critters no longer have to worry about lawnmowers or weedkiller. They even have a water source now. I've already seen dragonflies hovering over her little pond. It looks like a tropical paradise to me. I would gladly post pics, but I'd first have to have some, for one thing, and then I would also need her permission. Sadly since the pandemic I haven't visited her much. However, if I were to describe it, it would be more or less like a Japanese garden.
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All the little critters no longer have to worry about lawnmowers or weedkiller. They even have a water source now. I've already seen dragonflies hovering over her little pond. It looks like a tropical paradise to me. I would gladly post pics, but I'd first have to have some, for one thing, and then I would also need her permission. Sadly since the pandemic I haven't visited her much. However, if I were to describe it, it would be more or less like a Japanese garden.
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I do like the green-carpet look of lawns, and don't mind when an unwatered lawn turns temporarily brown during a dry spell. It's just that other options are good too. Someone I know used to live in Arizona, and although their development had some rule about each property having a tree, I don't know what the policy was about lawns. Anyhow, I've seen photos of desert-area suburbs with interesting cacti growing on a sandy/rocky front or back yard. VERY nice to look at, as well as being more suitable to the local conditions; a thirsty expanse of grass seems almost as inappropriate in such a place as if I tried to plant a tropical palm on my property and enclosed it in a transparent, clear-plastic, heated tent during our famously severe winters.
ETA @Veganite Japanese-style gardens look amazing (what I've seen of them). I think they're quite labor-intensive, but I'm not sure... sometimes serenity takes a lot of effort. 
ETA @Veganite Japanese-style gardens look amazing (what I've seen of them). I think they're quite labor-intensive, but I'm not sure... sometimes serenity takes a lot of effort.
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I think it depends on what you want in the garden. I'm sure some are very labour intensive. However, my friend planted all low maintenance plants in hers. She barely touches it, with the exception of a few weeds that might push through the landscaping fabric, which she will remove. She doesn't even have to water anything out there.
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