News 2016 U.S. Presidential election - the highs and lows

beancounter said:
Doesn't that realization twist your stomach in knots a bit? Just a little maybe?
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I agree with what you are saying ... BUT ... how to resolve this issue?
Wishing it were better unfortunately does not make it so.

I know that some others are truly fond of Hilary Clinton.
 
beancounter said:
For example, some above listed what ideas Trump supports, but said nothing about what Clinton supports.
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I see that I once again made the mistake of thinking that people are at least minimally informed about the issues when I posted above. I've generally wised up about that, but since this is a thread in which one would expect participants to be at least minimally informed about candidates' positions on the issues, I tried to minimize the amount of typing I had to do.

I'll come back later in the day to do that when I can take half an hour at a stretch.
 
Mischief said:
I see that I once again made the mistake of thinking that people are at least minimally informed about the issues when I posted above. I've generally wised up about that, but since this is a thread in which one would expect participants to be at least minimally informed about candidates' positions on the issues, I tried to minimize the amount of typing I had to do.

I'll come back later in the day to do that when I can take half an hour at a stretch.
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The media has been focusing 99% of it's time on Trump's antics. Clinton's positions don't get much attention or analysis, so she's been getting a free pass in that regard. You've been spending most of your time on this thread pointing out Trump's flaws, but anyone who watches even a little bit of news, is already well aware of them..so in effect, you've been wasting your time preaching to the choir...

And yea, I'm well aware of your passive aggressive attack, but when you have nothing of substance, I guess that's all you can resort to.

Nonetheless, we can move beyond that if it really is an inconvenience for you.

How about meting my challenge of listing 5 concerns you have about Hillary. I'm curious as to why you overlooked that post...
 
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beancounter said:
I gave you an opportunity to attack the content, but instead you chose to (passively aggressively) attack my character. You've been here long enough to know the rules. "attack the idea, not the person"

I think that speaks volumes as well....
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You need to find better YouTube videos. I'm not going to listen to that scumbag.
 
beancounter said:
Here's a challenge that will be excruciatingly painful for some of you:

Come up with 5 substantive concerns you have about Hillary. (and avoid those "a weakness that's really a strength" type answers)
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I posted this last month. It wasn't painful at all.

As president, Hillary Clinton will continue President Obama's drone policy, dropping bombs on predominately Muslim countries, slaughtering countless men, women and children. People who are not the right kind of human being will continue to be deported; families will be torn apart. The police will continue to kill and brutalize citizens without consequence. Capitalism will still be a thing. Systemic racism will still be a thing.

Hillary Clinton will do things that conservatives could only dream of, but she'll package it in a way that liberals won't protest. She won't refer to Mexicans as rapists and drug dealers but she'll still deport them. She won't ban Muslims from entering the United States, but she'll still bomb them. Marginalized people will continue to struggle.​
 
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beancounter said:
I dislike both candidates. I've said that much before, and that's why I'm posting this video.

Fair warning, it is NSFW. The guy speaking is blunt and crude, and swears a lot.
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I have nothing good to say about The Amazing Atheist or this video, but I do love the thumbnail, which seems to imply that Clinton, Trump, and Bill have fused into some sort of giant bag of frowning faces.
 
Spang said:
I posted this last month. It wasn't painful at all.

As president, Hillary Clinton will continue President Obama's drone policy, dropping bombs on predominately Muslim countries, slaughtering countless men, women and children. People who are not the right kind of human being will continue to be deported; families will be torn apart. The police will continue to kill and brutalize citizens without consequence. Capitalism will still be a thing. Systemic racism will still be a thing.

Hillary Clinton will do things that conservatives could only dream of, but she'll package it in a way that liberals won't protest. She won't refer to Mexicans as rapists and drug dealers but she'll still deport them. She won't ban Muslims from entering the United States, but she'll still bomb them. Marginalized people will continue to struggle.​
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Very much agreed.

I don't care much for Clinton. She is business as usual.

The difference between her and Trump is that she actually has a platform which will do some good things and avoid destroying fifty years of progress (and the country). The idea that these are just two sides of the same coin should be laughable to anyone who's actually watched them operate in public.
 
beancounter said:
The media has been focusing 99% of it's time on Trump's antics. Clinton's position's don't get much attention or analysis, so she's been getting a free pass in that regard. You've been spending most of your time on this thread pointing out Trump's flaws, but anyone who watches even a little bit of news, is already well aware of them..so in effect, you've been wasting your time preaching to the choir...

And yea, I'm well aware of your passive aggressive attack, but when you have nothing of substance, I guess that's all you can resort to.

Nonetheless, we can move beyond that if it really is an inconvenience for you.

How about meting my challenge of listing 5 concerns you have about Hillary. I'm curious as to why you overlooked that post...
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Oh, no inconvenience at all. However, I am just taking a moment here and there to check the news, email and VV while I do the actual things IRL that need doing.

Don't be so impatient - some of us do have things to do outside of the internetz.
 
Mischief said:
Oh, no inconvenience at all. However, I am just taking a moment here and there to check the news, email and VV while I do the actual things IRL that need doing.

Don't be so impatient - some of us do have things to do outside of the internetz.
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Oh, the implied personal attacks in that sentence....:rolleyes:

You're just jealous because I telecommute, and have access to my work and personal laptops simultaneously, and you still do it the 20th century way. Your carbon footprint must be YUGE. :p
 
Jeremy said:
When your parties are so polarized in a time when you have Evangelical Christian ideals being fought for on one side, and we're a bunch of moral deggerates (I say that with great pride, affection, maybe a little jest :) ) on the other.
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I think the word you were looking for was degenerates. :)
 
Joe said:
Sorry. I did not realize you were using auto-correct, something I have never used.
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Lol, there's absolutely no need to apologize, Joe. Not offended whatsoever, sorry if my use of strong language made it sound that way (F bomb habit, then I pout about Indian Summer censoring me :P ) I usually post here from the PC, but I happened to post that earlier from my iPad.
 
Jeremy said:
Speaking for myself, the first thing I ask myself is will the candidate work at achieving and/or continuing the agendas that matter to me? Everything else is kind of secondary. That being said, I can understand how some Republicans don't care what a piece of **** Trump is, just like if I'm honest I don't really care if Clinton is a corrupt mega ***** or not as long as she's in it to further and keep the momentum going on the agendas that matter.

I don't care what she did with her e-mail (Nevermind the fact she likely did the American people a FAVOR... No, I will not and can not elaborate on why this is so, it just is.), who gave her money, who her mentor was, who she had lunch with that one time, who she defended as a lawyer, nor do I care what her opinion was in 2004. I don't even care where Bill put his cigars :)
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For me, it's a combination of the person and the policies. The policies are much, much more important, but there are lines I won't cross. For example, I have spent quite a bit of time trying to imagine whether I could vote for a candidate who mocked a disabled person. I've concluded that I wouldn't, no matter how abhorrent I found the policies of the opposing candidate. That - mocking a disabled person - is just a failure of basic decency that can't be excused by upbringing, social mores, whatever. Just completely and irredeemably disgusting and awful.
 
beancounter said:
It seems we're back to square one. Instead of saying why Clinton is qualified to be president, all I read is that she's not Trump.

For example, some above listed what ideas Trump supports, but said nothing about what Clinton supports.

Just because she doesn't support Trump's crazy ideas doesn't mean her own ideas are valid by default. It's a big mistake and intellectually lazy to give her a free pass.

It's not a matter of he also did it. The issue is that people are willing to ignore her failings. Just like Trump supporters are willing to ignore his failings. That's the real issue. The willingness to compromise because you believe she represents your interest.

Like Trump, she represents her own interest. She just has a better presentation, and many people here are falling for it.

If that's the only qualification she needs, then I think we've stooped to a new low as a society.

Clinton will be elected, and after the euphoria diminishes, there is going to be some buyer's remorse.

Be careful what you wish for.
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So, so many assumptions here.

O.K., since you need it spelled out, I'll give the flip side of my list above.

1. Hillary is smart enough to realize that all Muslims aren't terrorists, that in fact, the vast majority of people who are murdered or who otherwise suffer from the actions of ISIL and their ilk are Muslim. She's also smart enough to realize that the kind of talk the alt right prefers plays right into the hands of ISIL. She realizes that the vast majority of illegal immigrants from Mexico and elsewhere aren't rapists; are, in fact, really hardworking people who do the back breaking, dirty, nasty jobs that Americans don't want to do, all to try to make a bit better life for themselves and their families.

2. Hillary actually "believes in" science. (I put it in quotes because science isn't actually a matter of belief. Facts are facts, even when some choose to try to deny them.) The issue of climate change is the greatest danger we face, and we need people who are willing to acknowledge the fact that it exists.

3. Hillary supports the right to choose.

4. Hillary actually has knowledge of international affairs, and is respected internationally. She knows the dangers inherent in nuclear proliferation. She knows that the U.S. acknowledging Jerusalem as the capital of Israel would have a further destabilizing effect on the Middle East. She knows what Putin is; that he's not to be trusted.

5. Hillary is for closing the loopholes that allow guns to be sold freely and without background checks at gun shows and other venues. She is for restricting the sale of guns that have only one purpose - to kill as many people in as short amount of time as possible.

I don't feel like typing out an exhaustive list of all of the issues on which Donald and Hillary differ, since it would encompass pretty much everything, but I'll find you a resource describing them if you need me to.
 
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Spang said:
Being critical of the voice you choose to amplify is absolutely relevant to the discussion. The scumbag in question has a laundry list of deplorable opinions. That you would share one of his YouTube videos speaks volumes.
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Agreed.

It's remarkably similar to the Trump campaign saying that it doesn't matter that he re-tweets messages from white supremacist sites, that it's only the content of the message that counts.
 
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