US Connecticut Shooting

Eleven said:
In response to the renewed gun control discussion, guns are being purchased at manic levels. Never mind that there are already 350 million guns in the hands of civilian Americans. Never mind that those exhibiting this irrational behavior already own a disproportionate number of those guns. Never mind that there is no rational reason to believe that they will ever need these guns.
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Like I said, we're effectively increasing the numbers of guns on the streets just by having these debates. The election of Obama alone cause an increase in gun sales. Crazy as they might be, they have their "culture," so to speak, and when they perceive a threat to their way of life it should be expected that they will react like this. We've gotta change the culture before we attack gun rights themselves, or the social consequences could be more harmful than the shootings. It's just not as simple as throwing new laws on the books.
 
yakherder said:
Like I said, we're effectively increasing the numbers of guns on the streets just by having these debates. The election of Obama alone cause an increase in gun sales. Crazy as they might be, they have their "culture," so to speak, and when they perceive a threat to their way of life it should be expected that they will react like this. We've gotta change the culture before we attack gun rights themselves, or the social consequences could be more harmful than the shootings. It's just not as simple as throwing new laws on the books.
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Ok, fair enough. how do we change the culture?
 
yakherder said:
Like I said, we're effectively increasing the numbers of guns on the streets just by having these debates. The election of Obama alone cause an increase in gun sales. Crazy as they might be, they have their "culture," so to speak, and when they perceive a threat to their way of life it should be expected that they will react like this. We've gotta change the culture before we attack gun rights themselves, or the social consequences could be more harmful than the shootings. It's just not as simple as throwing new laws on the books.
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Cultural changes come about because society as a whole takes steps to change them. Laws aren't the only thing that need to be addressed - but it's a good start. And it's the low hanging fruit. Part of the evoloution of a society is to put parameters in place for what is acceptable and what is not. Why should we need to be over-sensitive and careful with a culture of people who love their guns, when in all likelyhood those people have all the guns and ammunition they will ever need? I fail to see why we are walking on eggshells about this. They are not the ones losing their lives.
 
yakherder said:
Like I said, we're effectively increasing the numbers of guns on the streets just by having these debates. The election of Obama alone cause an increase in gun sales. Crazy as they might be, they have their "culture," so to speak, and when they perceive a threat to their way of life it should be expected that they will react like this. We've gotta change the culture before we attack gun rights themselves, or the social consequences could be more harmful than the shootings. It's just not as simple as throwing new laws on the books.
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No, we're only increasing the number of guns in the cabinets, closets, under the beds of, and the bunkers of people exhibiting unstable behaviors. These reactionary people are secessionists and militia members and you're not going to change their culture. They've been coddled long enough. It's time to pass strict gun regulations.
 
Earlier this month, when Rep. Steve Israel (D-N.Y.) held an impromptu press conference in New York to express his opposition to the unregulated production of 3D-printed guns, his words didn’t gain much traction. But as politicians swoop in on the gun control debate in the wake of the Sandy Hook shooting, the practice of manufacturing firearms from materials assembled by 3D printers has come under a fresh round of scrutiny.

MakerBot, a startup that makes relatively cheap, consumer-oriented 3D printers, pulled plans for the lower receiver of an AR-15 semi automatic rifle from its blueprint database known as the Thingverse on Thursday, saying that the item violated the company’s terms of service.
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- International Business Times.

Don't think they are going to be too successful with this. It's already hard enough to stop pirated movies, music, games and books. 3D printer plans for gun parts are going to be as equally impossible to suppress.

We're getting to the point where it's remarkably easy for people to make things.

Might want to start changing the culture now.
 
Eleven said:
No, we're only increasing the number of guns in the cabinets, closets, under the beds of, and the bunkers of people exhibiting unstable behaviors.
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When a collector who buys something before it may become unavailable, what part of that behavior is "unstable"?

These reactionary people are secessionists and militia members and you're not going to change their culture. They've been coddled long enough. It's time to pass strict gun regulations.
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Aren't you confusing the majority with a lunatic fringe?
 
Sorry I haven't backread.

I am curious if any one knows how many bad people with guns have actually been stopped by good people with guns (other than armed police)?
 
yally said:
I am curious if any one knows how many bad people with guns have actually been stopped by good people with guns (other than armed police)?
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You can find self-defense statistics involving weapons, but they don't distinguish between criminals who are armed and criminals who aren't armed. That figure is somewhere between 100,000/year (conservative estimate) to 2,500,000/year (almost certainly the product of wishful thinking).
 
http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/...n-controls-asks-to-put-police-in-schools?lite

Well the NRA's response was predictable. Put cops/security guards in schools. they say malls and airports have them, why not schools. I think they are overlooking that malls and airports are for-profit companies. Schools rely on taxes. So in order for there to be security guards in schools, either taxes will have to increase (which most republicans are against), or schools will have to allocate money from various programs to pay for the security. which will result in a decrease in the quality of education.

And of course more guns, means higher sales for the gun manufacturers that the NRA represents.
What a covenient coincidence... :rolleyes:
 
Where I worked in NYC, we used to have to walk to the bank 3 blocks away several times a day to make cash drops. There were three of us that performed this function. We were never armed - the thinking was that the number of individuals present would be enough to serve as a deterrent. One day, around Christmas, we were robbed at gunpoint. The gunman carried a 9mm glock - a bullet was in the chamber and he waved us all off and demanded we drop the bag of cash. It got a little complicated and I don't want to distract from my point so I'll skip to later at the police station when we were filing a report:

Cop: You guys were lucky. If you had been armed they would have just shot you first instead of asking for the money.
 
das_nut said:
Considering concealed carry laws, why didn't the robber shoot you first?
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They were watching us for weeks. We worked in plain sight among all the customers. It would not have been hard to acertain that the percentages of us carrying a concealed weapon were small.

Action always has the jump on reaction. A glock could have put three of us down quickly. Had one of us reached for a weapon - that's likely what would have happened.
 
Dedalus said:
They were watching us for weeks. We worked in plain sight among all the customers. It would not have been hard to acertain that the percentages of us carrying a concealed weapon were small.
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Hmmm. Guess they weren't paranoid enough to think that one of you may only conceal carry when you are traveling with a large amount of cash. Or, say, had a gun in a purse or bag.

Action always has the jump on reaction. A glock could have put three of us down quickly. Had one of us reached for a weapon - that's likely what would have happened.
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That's my impression of things as well.
 
das_nut said:
Hmmm. Guess they weren't paranoid enough to think that one of you may only conceal carry when you are traveling with a large amount of cash. Or, say, had a gun in a purse or bag.
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It may be giving them too much credit - but this was a neighborhood store. They could have easily have had conversations with individuals or employees who knowingly or unknowingly could have provided them the information that none of us were carrying a weapon. They really did not want to shoot, cause the person holding the bag of money didn't give up the cash so easily. Even with a gun under his chin.


das_nut said:
That's my impression of things as well.
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It is pertinent to note that after this event, a security firm was hired to handle all the bank drops. I became friends with one of the guards who regularly took this route with a partner. Until he was killed on the job. Shot dead.
 
Dedalus said:
They could have easily have had conversations with individuals or employees who knowingly or unknowingly could have provided them the information that none of us were carrying a weapon.
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I suppose. Then again, would everyone know if someone was carrying a concealed weapon?
 
das_nut said:
I suppose. Then again, would everyone know if someone was carrying a concealed weapon?
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I'm not certain if you're asking the question as it specifically pertains to my experience or just as a general question. Of course, not 'everyone' could be certain who was packing and who wasn't. But we've already agreed it would not have mattered in this case one way or the other, so I'm not sure what your point is.
 

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