Do you believe in spanking as a form of discipline?

[Fyvel]

"Slapping our wife, when used properly isn't about inducing physical pain to correct behavior, it's about showing extreme spousal displeasure in order to curb dangerous behavior. Seldom needed but I won't flat out say it's never needed. As a husband I would never limit myself from doing something if I thought it was effective and the benefits outweighed the costs."

See the problem here?

I think Fyvel's analogy is a good one. You wouldn't use those type of tactics on a mentally challenged adult or with a older person with dementia I hope?

Exactly my thoughts with my post. If your wife has a health condition that caused her to run into the street, unable to understand the implications of it, nobody would be advocating for you to hit her.

We express extreme displeasure with our tone of voice. The "mean"/"serious" voice comes out in dangerous situations, and since we rarely use it, it does take him by surprise and he will mostly stop what he is doing (at least long enough for us to physically remove him from the dangerous situation).

 

[Forster]

"Slapping our wife, when used properly isn't about inducing physical pain to correct behavior, it's about showing extreme spousal displeasure in order to curb dangerous behavior. Seldom needed but I won't flat out say it's never needed. As a husband I would never limit myself from doing something if I thought it was effective and the benefits outweighed the costs."

See the problem here?

No I really don't as my wife is of the age you can talk to her and she can understand. Young children are still learning. Difficult to explain to a toddler what a car would do to them and what dead really means.

 

[Forster]

I think Fyvel's analogy is a good one. You wouldn't use those type of tactics on a mentally challenged adult or with a older person with dementia I hope?

They would more than likely be completely useless on such a person as they would be incapable of learning from it. The best one could hope for in such a situation is physical restraint and if they did escape and run into the street hope a car wasn't barreling down the road.

 

[Forster]

We express extreme displeasure with our tone of voice. The "mean"/"serious" voice comes out in dangerous situations, and since we rarely use it, it does take him by surprise and he will mostly stop what he is doing (at least long enough for us to physically remove him from the dangerous situation).

Ahhh, verbal abuse.

 

[Veggiemama]

Saying "no" in a stern (mean) voice is not verbal abuse. Verbal abuse would be degrading a person with words. Saying things to hurt their feelings or make them feel bad about themselves. There's nothing wrong with saying no to a child in a voice that they understand exudes the seriousness of the situation.

 

[Forster]

Saying "no" in a stern (mean) voice is not verbal abuse. Verbal abuse would be degrading a person with words. Saying things to hurt their feelings or make them feel bad about themselves. There's nothing wrong with saying no to a child in a voice that they understand exudes the seriousness of the situation.

I was being facetious.

 

[Veggiemama]

Oh. Haha!! You can never be quite sure. Ive actually had other people make that argument in all seriousness. I'm part of a debate page on FB and we've debated this topic a couple times.

 

[Lord Snot]

No, not acceptable. If I ever did it it would be because I had completely lost control and was acting violently out of anger, which would make my behaviour a million times worse than anything my child could ever do.

 

[Fyvel]

No I really don't as my wife is of the age you can talk to her and she can understand. Young children are still learning. Difficult to explain to a toddler what a car would do to them and what dead really means.

Then it is your responsibility to keep your kid out of the street. I don't see how spanking them is going to teach them about the dangers of cars? You even said yourself it only worked in the moment because of the shock value of it.

They would more than likely be completely useless on such a person as they would be incapable of learning from it. The best one could hope for in such a situation is physical restraint and if they did escape and run into the street hope a car wasn't barreling down the road.

Do you think a small child learns anything of value from spanking? Why can you not justify hitting another adult, but can justify hitting a small child?

No, not acceptable. If I ever did it it would be because I had completely lost control and was acting violently out of anger, which would make my behaviour a million times worse than anything my child could ever do.

Exactly! I've always seen spanking as a breakdown of parental control, or when done in a controlled situation, it's because of lack of skills in teaching in another way. The times I've been tempted to spank have been when I have totally lost control of the situation, usually in a situation where I didn't sleep well the night before. Being in that mind frame usually means *I* need a good time out, to reset so I can be a better parent.

 

[Forster]

Just to clarify my position on spanking and what spanking means to me. It's an immediate response to an immediate danger, not to cause pain, but to shock, not unlike using a stern voice can be used to shock a kid into stopping. I'm not even arguing it's always the best alternative in a given situation, but sometimes things happen quickly and one reacts. I do think if used sparingly it can work and does no lasting damage to a child's mental well being.

This is different from beatings or threats of beatings meant to cause pain to curb behavior which I consider physical abuse. I also think spankings ought to be stopped once a child has a reasonable vocabulary both verbal and non-verbal. Nothing gives a dad greater pleasure than to be able to instantly stop obnoxious behavior with "the look".

 

[Forster]

No, not acceptable. If I ever did it it would be because I had completely lost control and was acting violently out of anger, which would make my behaviour a million times worse than anything my child could ever do.

I only ever did it out of fear.

 

[Lord Snot]

I only ever did it out of fear.

Okay, so change my post to "...I had completely lost control and was acting violently out of fear". I still don't think it's okay.

 

[Poppy]

I was spanked - often - and I turned out fine. I chose not to spank, and both of my kids turned out fine, too. But I think they like me and trust me a whole lot more than I like or trust my mother.

 

[Fyvel]

Just to clarify my position on spanking and what spanking means to me. It's an immediate response to an immediate danger, not to cause pain, but to shock, not unlike using a stern voice can be used to shock a kid into stopping. I'm not even arguing it's always the best alternative in a given situation, but sometimes things happen quickly and one reacts. I do think if used sparingly it can work and does no lasting damage to a child's mental well being.

This is different from beatings or threats of beatings meant to cause pain to curb behavior which I consider physical abuse. I also think spankings ought to be stopped once a child has a reasonable vocabulary both verbal and non-verbal. Nothing gives a dad greater pleasure than to be able to instantly stop obnoxious behavior with "the look".

I think the way you use spankings is not the norm, and while I don't agree with using any form of physical punishment, I wouldn't consider using it as you stated as a form of child abuse or anything (comparatively, I would "slap" away my son's hand from a hot stove or whatever if that's what I needed to do to prevent him from getting burned, and that's probably about the same level of force you are describing). Most people who use spankings don't seem to use them the way you described though.

FWIW, I have also used loud noises, like clapping my hands loudly together, when I need to get his attention *right now*, for the shock value, if you will, to get him to stop what he's doing so I can buy a second or two to intervene. He's 17 months, strongly spirited, very rambunctious/determined/persistent and I know he requires nearly constant vigilance (I'm sure these characteristics will serve him well later in life but they are a bit challenging at this age!). I wouldn't take him walking down a street unless he was strapped in a stroller, in a carrier, or holding (tightly) to my hand or being carried, because I *know* his personality and that he is unpredictable (or predictably unpredictable, if you will).

 

[Fyvel]

I was spanked - often - and I turned out fine. I chose not to spank, and both of my kids turned out fine, too. But I think they like me and trust me a whole lot more than I like or trust my mother.

Being spanked is one of the reasons I am so strongly against spanking my own kid

Maybe because I know I didn't learn anything from it than to fear getting in trouble (which is not the same as *not* getting in trouble).

 

[Forster]

Then it is your responsibility to keep your kid out of the street. I don't see how spanking them is going to teach them about the dangers of cars? You even said yourself it only worked in the moment because of the shock value of it.

One does one's best to look out for and guard you kids from danger but sometimes **** happens.

It also doesn't just work that moment, they remember that moment like when people remember where they were when Kennedy was shot or where they were when the Challenger blew up.

Do you think a small child learns anything of value from spanking? Why can you not justify hitting another adult, but can justify hitting a small child?

If a small child learns not to run into a busy street, yeah I would guess there is some value to that. Very young children and adults do not have the same communication skills so different methods of communication depending on their skills may be necessary.

 

[Fyvel]

One does one's best to look out for and guard you kids from danger but sometimes **** happens.

It also doesn't just work that moment, they remember that moment like when people remember where they were when Kennedy was shot or where they were when the Challenger blew up.

I'm thinking a very strong, scared reaction from the parent would also have a lasting impact on them?

If a small child learns not to run into a busy street, yeah I would guess there is some value to that. Very young children and adults do not have the same communication skills so different methods of communication depending on their skills may be necessary.

I was actually thinking the other day that I need to make a game of "stop and go" to teach him (in a fun environment) to STOP in his tracks when he hears the word, and that it might just work in an emergency situation.

 

[Lord Snot]

Being spanked is one of the reasons I am so strongly against spanking my own kid

Maybe because I know I didn't learn anything from it than to fear getting in trouble (which is not the same as *not* getting in trouble).

Me too. My mum only hit me 3 or 4 times and I knew, even as a kid, that she had lost control and that's why she had done it. It made me lose respect for her, although I couldn't have articulated it in those words at the time. It never made me think "wow, that thing I just did was so bad that it got the worse punishment", it just made me think "wow, mum lost her temper and she's always telling me not to do that".

 

[Veggiemama]

Exactly! I've always seen spanking as a breakdown of parental control, or when done in a controlled situation, it's because of lack of skills in teaching in another way. The times I've been tempted to spank have been when I have totally lost control of the situation, usually in a situation where I didn't sleep well the night before. Being in that mind frame usually means *I* need a good time out, to reset so I can be a better parent.

I think a lot of parents spank because theyre lazy and don't want to take the time and effort to teach their child using non violent methods. THAT is what pisses me off the most about spanking. I have no patience for lazy parenting techniques.

 

[Veggiemama]

I also want my children to listen to me because they respect me, not because they fear me. I do everything in my power to protect my child from harm so I can't imagine inflicting that harm onto him myself.