Fourth Wave Feminism

[das_nut]

Ultimately it's about money, das.

Basicaly what you are talking about there is freeing both men and women from measuring their value by how much they earn.

Yes that would be healthier but I think you'll have trouble attaching wings that will fly to that little bird!

Gotta be good little consumers, don't we? :/

 

[Mischief]

I think I can safely still say 'we' here:

That rather goes without saying.

 

[Mischief]

While there has been some movements towards reordering society, as a whole, the feminist movement is not so much of "smash the patriarchy" as it is "join the patriarchy" (to use the misleading term of "patriarchy").

The things you are talking about have to do with capitalism, and come from a very Western-centric POV as well. Expecting feminism to change our economic structure is like expecting veganism to change our political structure.

 

[das_nut]

The things you are talking about have to do with capitalism, and come from a very Western-centric POV as well. Expecting feminism to change our economic structure is like expecting veganism to change our political structure.

I'm not expecting a change in the economic structure as much as a rejection of the salaryman idea as something to aspire to.

 

[Mischief]

I'm not expecting a change in the economic structure as much as a rejection of the salaryman idea as something to aspire to.

You can't really separate the two. Capitalism is built on the concept of exploiting resources to their fullest, and one of those resources is the human resource. The worker who produces the most income for the cost of the worker will always be the highest prized and compensated accordingly.

It's not reasonable to expect feminism to change that, especially when so few people even support feminism.

 

[das_nut]

You can't really separate the two. Capitalism is built on the concept of exploiting resources to their fullest, and one of those resources is the human resource. The worker who produces the most income for the cost of the worker will always be the highest prized and compensated accordingly.

It's not reasonable to expect feminism to change that, especially when so few people even support feminism.

And in a capitalistic society, shouldn't the workers also exploit their jobs to the fullest?

I'm not saying that some people shouldn't make their careers the focus of their lives (different strokes for different folks), but it seems to me that a push for more family-friendly environments would be best for all.

 

[Clueless Git]

And in a capitalistic society, shouldn't the workers also exploit their jobs to the fullest?

The only 'fair' way to do that, imho, is to make yourself into a 'commodity' that there is a higher demand for than there is a supply of.

 

[FortyTwo]

FEMALE MISOGYNISTS.

Oh boy. Oooohhhh boy.

And here I was, about to write a lengthy response to you, Mr. Git. That tells me everything I need to know about how you see this issue.

Not that I didn't have enough information about it beforehand.

 

[Mischief]

And in a capitalistic society, shouldn't the workers also exploit their jobs to the fullest?

I'm not saying that some people shouldn't make their careers the focus of their lives (different strokes for different folks), but it seems to me that a push for more family-friendly environments would be best for all.

Well, in a capitalistic society, exploiting one's job to the fullest means maximizing one's earnings.

 

[das_nut]

Well, in a capitalistic society, exploiting one's job to the fullest means maximizing one's earnings.

Only if money is the only measurement you can think of from a job.

 

[Clueless Git]

FEMALE MISOGYNISTS.

Oh boy. Oooohhhh boy.

No. By definition they would have to be girls.

Not that I didn't have enough information about it beforehand.

I was thinking about this sort of thing last night.

It would seem that there are a number of people who already have all the information they want.

Seems that my posts too frequently contain new information (like misogyny not being a single gender thing) that upsets such people.

Not constructive to upset people past the point that anything constructive may result so I put those people on ignore.

Probably because I have a son of your age who is just emerging from the "I have enough information about it beforehand" stage; I would like you to know that I did always read your posts with a certain degree of 'fatherly' interest and affection though.

 

[Clueless Git]

Only if money is the only measurement you can think of from a job.

In the context of workers exploiting their jobs in the same way that capitalist employers exploit their workers ...

Well, if capital is not the unit of measurement for success in any capitalist endeavor then I have only one question:

WTF is?????


Seriously, I think we are on very much the same song sheet when it comes to the 'money is not the only measure' thing, das.

 

[das_nut]

In the context of workers exploiting their jobs in the same way that capitalist employers exploit their workers ...

Well, if capital is not the unit of measurement for success in any capitalist endeavor then I have only one question:

WTF is?????

Capitalism is a tool, nothing more, and money is an aspect of that tool. Money is a measure of success in life like fire is a measure of success in heating a home.

I'm quite fond of the small fire in my furnace that regularly is lit by the pilot light. Especially since the current temperature is -9F (-23C). If I didn't have it, it would be my primary concern. I consider having it to be a measure of success. But I would not consider it more successful if the fire spread outside the furnace to the rest of the house.

 

[Mischief]

Only if money is the only measurement you can think of from a job.

Money is what capitalism is ultimately all about.

 

[das_nut]

Money is what capitalism is ultimately all about.

Well, private ownership with the goal of profits is what capitalism is all about. It's an economic system, not a way of life.

 

[Mischief]

Well, private ownership with the goal of profits is what capitalism is all about. It's an economic system, not a way of life.

I don't agree. On a practical level, maximizing profit is a way of life.

 

[das_nut]

I don't agree. On a practical level, maximizing profit is a way of life.

Tell me, what fiscal benefit do you get from your post? Is it lesser or greater than the fiscal benefit you'd get from doing something like working for Amazon's Mechanical Turk?

Because I think your post probably disproves your point that it's a way of life.

 

[Mischief]

Tell me, what fiscal benefit do you get from your post? Is it lesser or greater than the fiscal benefit you'd get from doing something like working for Amazon's Mechanical Turk?

Because I think your post probably disproves your point that it's a way of life.

Well, I'm not living a capitalistic lifestyle, so your point is?

 

[das_nut]

Well, I'm not living a capitalistic lifestyle, so your point is?

You're not living a capitalistic lifestyle, neither are most people, judging from their choices.

So lets stop pretending that we live in a capitalistic society.

 

[Mischief]

You're not living a capitalistic lifestyle, neither are most people, judging from their choices.

So lets stop pretending that we live in a capitalistic society.

The fact that not everyone chooses to live a capitalistic lifestyle does not make the system which determines one's "success" any less capitalistic. After all, that's what you're complaining about, that feminism isn't doing enough to fight the capitalistic system.