US Hearing for accused Colo. shooter to begin Monday

[beancounter]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/01/02/colorado-theater-shooting/1803651/

Seems like it took them long enough...

 

[Kitties]

This will cost the tax payer enough. And this guy now has more rights than I do.

 

[das_nut]

He's probably crazy, but society wants revenge.

 

[Eleven]

This will cost the tax payer enough. And this guy now has more rights than I do.

Uh, no. One doesn't gain any rights when they are charged with a crime. They may, though, have the opportunity to use some rights that most of us hope we never need to use.

 

[beancounter]

He's probably crazy, but society wants revenge.

Don't most murders try to use the insanity defense? My guess is that the actual percent of clinically crazy people is very small.

 

[ledboots]

Don't most murders try to use the insanity defense? My guess is that the actual percent of clinically crazy people is very small.

The insanity defense has a very narrow window, from my limited understanding. Anyone who shoots up a theatre like that is "crazy", but it has to be proven that he didn't know that what he was doing was considered wrong.

 

[Envy]

If you weren't crazy, would you have a reason to shoot random people?

 

[Blobbenstein]

If you weren't crazy, would you have a reason to shoot random people?

you could just be in a really really bad mood.

 

[beancounter]

If you weren't crazy, would you have a reason to shoot random people?

No. I forget the term, but there are people out there that completely lack the ability to empathize.
That doesn't mean they're crazy.
I believe the definition, as used by the legal system, has to do with your ability to understand the situation you're in.

 

[ledboots]

If you weren't crazy, would you have a reason to shoot random people?

No, but if you're aware that shooting people is against the law, you don't qualify for not guilty by reason of insanity. Insane maybe, but still culpable.

 

[mlp]

No, but if you're aware that shooting people is against the law, you don't qualify for not guilty by reason of insanity. Insane maybe, but still culpable.

This is a pretty good description of how limited the insanity defense is. Basically, if you know that killing is wrong or illegal, you're not insane from a legal perspective, no matter what the voices in your head are telling you to do.

 

[Blobbenstein]

This is a pretty good description of how limited the insanity defense is. Basically, if you know that killing is wrong or illegal, you're not insane from a legal perspective, no matter what the voices in your head are telling you to do.

so if a person believed that the country had been taken over by the body snatchers, and the country was governed by their laws, and the people they killed they thought were the body snatcher, would that person still be considered sane?


How would you proved that someone 'knows' something? Knowledge isn't the same as something one believes, and is also true. I could believe that it will rain tomorrow because I did a little rain dance. If it rains tomorrow could it be said that I knew it would rain tomorrow, or would I just have been lucky, and it was just a belief?

Someone might believe that it is illegal to kill, but at the same time they might believe that clouds are made of candy floss(cotton). Believing that it is illegal to kill, isn't the same as knowing it is illegal to kill, if that person isn't of sound mind.

 

[ledboots]

If someone tries to buy guns, is turned down, kills his mother in her sleep, steals all her guns and ammo, and dons a flak jacket, shoots his way into the elementary school, killing the people in the office so they can't call for help.... I don't think he would qualify for the insanity defense. The crime was premeditated, and he obviously knew what he was doing was illegal. Imo.

 

[kibbleforlola]

Less than one percent of felony cases invoke the insanity percent, and only about a fourth of those are successful. So no, it's really not that common.

 

[Envy]

you could just be in a really really bad mood.

The overwhelming majority get angry without killing a whole lot of uninvolved people.

No. I forget the term, but there are people out there that completely lack the ability to empathize.
That doesn't mean they're crazy.
I believe the definition, as used by the legal system, has to do with your ability to understand the situation you're in.

Sociopath?

But even if you cannot empathize, it doesn't give you a motive.

If someone tries to buy guns, is turned down, kills his mother in her sleep, steals all her guns and ammo, and dons a flak jacket, shoots his way into the elementary school, killing the people in the office so they can't call for help.... I don't think he would qualify for the insanity defense. The crime was premeditated, and he obviously knew what he was doing was illegal. Imo.

I'd say that it's more of a indicator of insanity than something made in the heat of the moment.

'cause that means that you actually have the capacity to shoot down people in cold and calm murder.

 

[Kitties]

Uh, no. One doesn't gain any rights when they are charged with a crime. They may, though, have the opportunity to use some rights that most of us hope we never need to use.

I guess I'm thinking along the lines of health care, free legal representation. Things that if I needed and didn't have health care (which gratefully I do now) I'd have to pay for.

I agree he's got to be crazy. Too bad we can't just push the crazy button and put him away without the huge expensive of a trial. Sorry but this guy isn't good for society or himself.

 

[Pickle Juice]

No. I forget the term, but there are people out there that completely lack the ability to empathize.
That doesn't mean they're crazy.
I believe the definition, as used by the legal system, has to do with your ability to understand the situation you're in.

Yes, lack of empathy, lack of impulse control, losing one's temper, and bam. You don't have to be crazy. I think the vast majority of people wish such folk were crazy mostly to distance themselves from people who act on their impulses to such a disastrous degree. Makes them feel like they aren't capable of acting in exactly the same way if the circumstances were favorable.

 

[Envy]

Yes, lack of empathy, lack of impulse control, losing one's temper, and bam. You don't have to be crazy. I think the vast majority of people wish such folk were crazy mostly to distance themselves from people who act on their impulses to such a disastrous degree. Makes them feel like they aren't capable of acting in exactly the same way if the circumstances were favorable.

Most people have some sense of empathy/moral restraint though.

 

[Pickle Juice]

Most people have some sense of empathy/moral restraint though.

That doesn't mean that people who don't are crazy, just that they might be rare. Though not rare enough, in my estimation.

 

[Envy]

That doesn't mean that people who don't are crazy, just that they might be rare. Though not rare enough, in my estimation.

And even if they are void of such things doesn't mean that they are going to do stupid **** like this.