I give up on vegan-Please help
- Thread starter Tadpole
- Start date
It doesn't suprise me that you would stoop so low as to make such ludicrous accusations...
You are furious that I don't agree with your "FACTS" and have challenged your condescending rants and arrogant attitude (which you are worringly unaware and apparently proud of)... and the only conclusion you can grasp onto is that I couldn't possibly be a vegan and I'm also a troll?
Everything you preach is over-emotional conceited BS based on a very narrowly focused way of thinking - forget about facts and consider common sense and respect.
There are other much healthier attitudes to veganism that don't involve trashing everything and everyone who isn't in the same narrow focused plane of thought as you.
You may consider yourself the divine all knowing messenger of all vegans, however I can assure you that this is not the case.
You need to get overyourself.
You are furious that I don't agree with your "FACTS" and have challenged your condescending rants and arrogant attitude (which you are worringly unaware and apparently proud of)... and the only conclusion you can grasp onto is that I couldn't possibly be a vegan and I'm also a troll?
Everything you preach is over-emotional conceited BS based on a very narrowly focused way of thinking - forget about facts and consider common sense and respect.
There are other much healthier attitudes to veganism that don't involve trashing everything and everyone who isn't in the same narrow focused plane of thought as you.
You may consider yourself the divine all knowing messenger of all vegans, however I can assure you that this is not the case.
You need to get overyourself.
Jamie in Chile
Forum Legend
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2016
- Reaction score
- 1,854
- Age
- 44
- Lifestyle
- Vegetarian
The moral case for meat remains the same whatever the arrogance or vegans, or whether or not they use insults.
Most people don't explicitly say that they will eat meat because vegans are arrogant, but it's mixed into the arguments.
It's a weak argument.
You wouldn't say.
I wanted to believe in racial equality, but some black lives matter protesters were rude to me, so I'll be racist.
I considered treating women as equals, but some of them were rude to me, so I'm going to hit my wife.
Most people don't explicitly say that they will eat meat because vegans are arrogant, but it's mixed into the arguments.
It's a weak argument.
You wouldn't say.
I wanted to believe in racial equality, but some black lives matter protesters were rude to me, so I'll be racist.
I considered treating women as equals, but some of them were rude to me, so I'm going to hit my wife.
With all due respect...I guess merely being an independent individual with thoughts and beliefs of your own isn't enough. You need to seek the approval of others.
Okay here's my suggestion...ignore the science ...and just begin wolfing down meat so you can gain the approval of these supposed detractors. When you're in your later years...waddling around, with your prescription pill pouch in hand, think of me, perfectly fit at 70 years old on my motorcycle navigating the beautiful roads of Sedona.
Want another suggestion? Try exercising your imagination, and get your soon to be expanding butt into the kitchen and investigate the MANY delicious recipes and produce dishes you enjoy.
Okay here's my suggestion...ignore the science ...and just begin wolfing down meat so you can gain the approval of these supposed detractors. When you're in your later years...waddling around, with your prescription pill pouch in hand, think of me, perfectly fit at 70 years old on my motorcycle navigating the beautiful roads of Sedona.
Want another suggestion? Try exercising your imagination, and get your soon to be expanding butt into the kitchen and investigate the MANY delicious recipes and produce dishes you enjoy.
I agree with FN.
The fact is ordinary poor people really didn't eat that much meat. Before factory farming only the rich could afford lots of meat. Factory farming only started in the 20th century. Meat really wasn't meant to be eaten so much. Most people eat way too much meat. Eating too much meat really DOES cause heart disease and food poisoning . It's totally UNNATURAL and the animals and the environment are having to suffer for it.
The fact is ordinary poor people really didn't eat that much meat. Before factory farming only the rich could afford lots of meat. Factory farming only started in the 20th century. Meat really wasn't meant to be eaten so much. Most people eat way too much meat. Eating too much meat really DOES cause heart disease and food poisoning . It's totally UNNATURAL and the animals and the environment are having to suffer for it.
rogerjolly
Forum Legend
Too true.
In 1066 The Normans invaded and completely took over England. Our present day language has evolved since then mainly as a mixture of French and Anglo Saxon.
Words such as cow, calf, sheep and pig are generally of Anglo Saxon origin because it was the conquered vast majority who did all the lowly peasant type work with animals.
Words such as beef, veal, mutton and pork are generally of French origin because it was the all-powerful tiny minority who actually ate the stuff.
Roger.
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Why care what other people say or eat, vegan or not. Diet is an individual choice and it's nobody else's business. Sometimes I wonder why I'm here but I guess I'm still somewhat delusional thinking that sharing information is helpful when often people turn it into a contest of right and wrong like dogs fighting for an illusory bone, instead of simply sharing without judging and attacking others, like civilized human beings.
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It's almost like pushing back against systemic abuse and murder of defenseless animals is important to some people.
Also Tadpole, our ancesters ate meat out of necessity, because they didn't know any better and there were not always vegetables and fruit available, let alone important things like nuts, now we have supermarkets stacked with them. And are we humans not nature? We are not apart from it, we are the ones making the decrees. And why be bothered about fake meat, just ignore it. It's not important. Ignore the ones who think they're doing the world a favor by preaching to people who are not interested. It doesn't have to affect your own individual choice. Who cares what other vegans do. You are vegan for your reasons. And if you wanna eat non vegan food now and then so what. At least you are still making an effort. In these few years you have been vegan you already made a big impact. Never underestimate how much you as an individual are influencing the world every day, with every choice you make. Thank you for having been vegan, for having come this far, for trying. I'm grateful to you regardless of whether you start eating animal products again or not. You've been kinder and more compassionate than most of the world, including some vegans.
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Norman
Newcomer
Don't give up, please! It's a much bigger issue than what food tastes nice. The planet is in crisis and going vegan, one person at a time will help.
Cheers, Norman
Cheers, Norman
FredVegrox
Forum Legend
This is the stupidest thing that nonvegans say, which I hear. And nonvegans coming to this forums site is not what I expected when I joined, when I thought about how I will fit in with other vegans in the forum communication. When the issues we talk about are the use of billions and billions of animals, with great abuse to them in their drastically shortened lives before brutal slaughter, which no one ever consents to, the harm to environment and global climate from animal agriculture, the contribution to using more resources and leaving more people starving, and the worse health from that which is a cost in society impacting many we care about, this is absolutely not an individual choice and nobody else's business. Veganism is not just simply a diet.
I do agree that veganism is more than diet, but unfortunately what you describe is an issue of many vegans having unrealistic expectations about others who don't conform exactly to their views. This often crosses the line into intolerance and aggression, which seems to manifest itself in trying to prove who is more vegan than the next vegan. I mean wtf? Many guilty of this, even on this forum. An attitude that should never be normalised and accepted.
This is where Slonaut is much more realistic, in the assertion that caring and trying to make a difference towards change in a positive way is more effective than boasting about how enlightened we are supposedly are. We are all humans and we none of us have a clue, other than the reality that we perceive, albeit all slightly differently.
I know that many vegans here were once vegetarians and even meat eaters (please dont say carnists). Were they all deserving of being given derogatory labels, accused of stupidity and ignorance, and patronised/belittled before they made the change to veganism? I think not. There is a kinder way of being.
FredVegrox
Forum Legend
You apparently were reading a lot more into what I was actually saying. This seems to be a common occurence. What I said for veganism corresponds to the definition of veganism from the Vegan Society, the original vegan organization. Where do you think I say anything showing I was expecting of others to conform exactly to my own views? Where do I ever show intolerance and aggression, or try to prove who is more vegan than another, while I conform to the definition of veganism? Where is the boast of being more enlightened? How was what I said not being for a difference made with change in a positive way, in light of the stated issues?
I don't ever say I was not ever nonvegan, or deny I was any of those things, and I speak of it in other places. I said the term nonvegan, which applies in this subject, and I don't recall saying the term carnist. But if I did, in the context to which it applies, it is an accurate term for such who the term designates. When did that ever become derogatory? I have no knowledge of that, so it with this allegation it should be shown how the term became such that it is always derogatory now.
Methinks thou protest too much. Is it not the guilty who ask the most questions? I refer to your reply to Slonaut. It's a typical fundamentalist view of labelling others' words at stupid and cutting off their opinions whenever they differ from yours, rather than actually being respectful.
FredVegrox
Forum Legend
Nonsense, you have nothing to show for the accusations you make, and you don't deal with the issues stated.
It is the arrogant fool who resorts to denial and petty verbs. You need to look at your intolerance and negative attitude towards others my friend.
FredVegrox
Forum Legend
Wow. And what was that? You still don't show. Is it that it was stated "Diet is an individual choice and it's nobody else's business", and it was shown that this remark has no bearing on veganism, because veganism is not a diet? Do you say showing that is intolerant? How so? How is it that and your arguing is tolerant?
I did say that I expected that I would find just vegans to be communicating here. As this is the Vegan Forum, it was not unreasonable for me as a beginner when I started here.
The fact that people should be allowed to have different opinions, to which I fully agree, does not mean that all opinions are correct. The (wrong) assumption that we as humans have always been eating meat does not mean we should continue to do so, certainly not if it is proven a vegan lifestyle is possible and healthy (I myself am a testament to this) and can end all forms of animal cruelty. Morally it is also my personal opinion we have no right to kill animals or to take any life as we please but this is, as I said, my own opinion.
A post stating facts about why eating and/or using animal products is bad, on top of mentioning animal cruelty (just search the internet) is not fundamentalism, in fact it is empathy, and I would even agrue that those refusing these facts are in fact the delusional and in my many years of experience as a vegan it is always those that eat meat that seem to feel the need to defend themselves quite agressively against those who chose to be vegan/vegetarian and I'm not a preachy vegan at all.
The fact of the matter remains that every vegan stops using animal products out of love. Whether it be love for our planet, or love for animals or both. They selflessly want to make the world a better place for everyone without thinking about monetary profits. The only profit they have in mind are the profit to the environment, our planet, to other people and to the animals and maybe to a lesser extent their own health.
How anyone can be against these choices is beyond me and you just have to do what you have to do. But I will keep chosing the way of love and will keep living my plant based life to the fullest.
