When you have an accident or a speeding ticket, your auto insurance rates go up. You're being punished for bad behavior. On the other hand, health insurance doesn't work this way. My brother hasn't had any health problems in a very long time, and his insurance is around $300 per month. He's being punished for the actions of others. Your rates would go up as you use your insurance more often. This would give people an incentive to be healthy. Do you think health insurance should be run more the way car insurance is?
Natural Medicine
- Thread starter rainforests1
- Start date
ledboots
Peace
Natural medicine may be cheaper, but paw paw doesn't cure cancer.
beancounter
The Fire That Burns Within
Years ago, I was into medicinal herbology. I can tell you from personal experience, that the vast majority of natural "medines" don't work, or theoretically would have to be taken in massive quantities over many years to yield any measurable results.
They are the new age "snake oil" of the late 20th and early 21st century.
They are the new age "snake oil" of the late 20th and early 21st century.
Firstly, can I say I think it is highly unfair to insinuate that all bad health is caused by the person.
Certain things, such as smoking, do increase the chances of ill health - and I know that a lot of UK/US insurers take smoking status into account when calculating costs.
I think health insurance and other types of insurance may be more comparable than others think. Health insurance is also all about risk. I had breakdown cover on my old car - as the car got older the insurance went up, because it was more and more likely to break down. Same thing with a human. When a human joins a health insurance policy they would usually be underwritten - the insurer would look at previous medical conditions and choose to either include them, exclude them, or include them for an additional cost, or just not cover them at all.
I can see both sides of the arguement. Of course it is unfair to make someone pay more because they have a costly disease thats not their fault (especially if they have to stop working due to said disease). But, at the same time, it does seem unfair for a healthy person to pay the same as someone whos made $100,000 worth of claims. I know at least in the UK health insurance companies are implimenting different measures to try balance this out. I think, if anything, a no/low claims discount is fairer than increasing the cost of claimers.
I have health insurance through work, and I'm greatful for it. However, I believe that health insurance should work alongside "free" healthcare rather than be the only option.
Certain things, such as smoking, do increase the chances of ill health - and I know that a lot of UK/US insurers take smoking status into account when calculating costs.
I think health insurance and other types of insurance may be more comparable than others think. Health insurance is also all about risk. I had breakdown cover on my old car - as the car got older the insurance went up, because it was more and more likely to break down. Same thing with a human. When a human joins a health insurance policy they would usually be underwritten - the insurer would look at previous medical conditions and choose to either include them, exclude them, or include them for an additional cost, or just not cover them at all.
I can see both sides of the arguement. Of course it is unfair to make someone pay more because they have a costly disease thats not their fault (especially if they have to stop working due to said disease). But, at the same time, it does seem unfair for a healthy person to pay the same as someone whos made $100,000 worth of claims. I know at least in the UK health insurance companies are implimenting different measures to try balance this out. I think, if anything, a no/low claims discount is fairer than increasing the cost of claimers.
I have health insurance through work, and I'm greatful for it. However, I believe that health insurance should work alongside "free" healthcare rather than be the only option.
yally
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Yup, cos here in the UK for example we can afford free healthcare because the NHS treats everything with homeopathy and crystals.
kibbleforlola
Lola Worshiper
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I think the reality would be that people would put off going to the doctor even longer than they do now, for fear of their premiums increasing. And then when they do finally get to the doctor, it would be much more expensive - not to mention deadly - than it would have been to treat had the person gone in as soon as they noticed a problem.
Could you give examples? At least here in the United States I hear stories of people going to the doctor for the
common cold. It seems that going to the doctor far too often is more the problem than people not going often enough.
SummerRain
I dreamed that God would be forgiving.
Whilst I believe that the NHS shouldn't spend money on methods proven not to work, the NHS does actually pay for people to be "treated" using homeopathy. Of course, that isn't why we can afford free healthcare, and it's not something that is common.
I think this is a really good point I hadn't thought of. Think of how many people have minor accidents/scrapes in their cars and don't claim because it raises their premiums, combined with many peoples reluctance to see health care professionals. It's a really sad thought
ETA: Here are a couple of studies from cancer charities in the UK discussing peoples reluctance to see doctors: bowel cancer UK , cancer UK.
What does this mean? If you're implying that it doesn't work, I'd love to see something substantial to back this up. I hear all of these horror stories associated with chemo and drugs that you don't hear about with natural medicine. I'm not sure why it has such a bad reputation on this board.
If natural meds cured cancer or HIV or any other aggressive illness then there would be no chemo, no drugs and youd be given fruit at the Pharmacy. I think that diet does work for something but forgive me for being sceptical about it curing cancer because it doesnt. Ive lost people to cancer, Ive seen what it does, how it rages through a healthy body and no amount of fruit or herbs is stopping an aggressive thing like cancer.
I really dont mean to be rude but it does upset me having experienced it, but if it brings you comfort to think its helping then thats great, but you did say before that your Doctors didnt think it was cancer it was a diagnoses youd given yourself..
I really dont mean to be rude but it does upset me having experienced it, but if it brings you comfort to think its helping then thats great, but you did say before that your Doctors didnt think it was cancer it was a diagnoses youd given yourself..
ledboots
Peace
Because people die trying just alternative, untested therapies. Here's an article from mayo clinic that has some proven natural treatments. http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/cancer-treatment/CM00002/NSECTIONGROUP=2
It's hard to tell whether Paw Paw is actually working, but it clearly is helping me with the pain. I can say that for a fact.
Businesses go where the money is. It's not just Cancer but for other illnesses natural medicine is usually cheap.
yally
Forum Legend
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Fact:
- you started taking Paw Paw. You pain was reduced.
Not fact:
- Paw Paw helps with the pain.
Possible:
- Paw Paw helps with the pain.
- the pain would have improved with time anyway
- placebo effect
ETA: whatever it is, I'm glad you're in less pain now
I dont have a problem with people taking natural medicines for ailments such as a cold, headache, backache etc etc... but when it comes to cancer I dont think there's much room for experimentation and i'd go for the most clinically proven route possible. No ******* around. Theyre generalty called complimentary medicines for a reason - should not be the only treatment!
If it was proven that Pawpaw cured cancer, you can bet that "big pharma" would find a way to profit off it. besides, without knowing what was actually causing your pain it is impossible to say if/why the pawpaw is helping (though im glad youre feeling better).
My dad is one of these tinfoil hat chemtrails/illuminati/reptilians/doctor mercola people who truely thinks maple syrup cures cancer, and claims that should he get cancer he would not use chemo/radiotherapy and just take maple syrup. That really upsets me, because he's quite high risk (heavy smoker, eats a lot of red meat, drinks a lot) - the thought of losing my Dad becuase he's too ******* stupid to take lifesaving drugs. If the situation ever happened I like to think he'd come around. blergh
If it was proven that Pawpaw cured cancer, you can bet that "big pharma" would find a way to profit off it. besides, without knowing what was actually causing your pain it is impossible to say if/why the pawpaw is helping (though im glad youre feeling better).
My dad is one of these tinfoil hat chemtrails/illuminati/reptilians/doctor mercola people who truely thinks maple syrup cures cancer, and claims that should he get cancer he would not use chemo/radiotherapy and just take maple syrup. That really upsets me, because he's quite high risk (heavy smoker, eats a lot of red meat, drinks a lot) - the thought of losing my Dad becuase he's too ******* stupid to take lifesaving drugs. If the situation ever happened I like to think he'd come around. blergh
das_nut
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Well, theoretically, it should not work. Homeopathy is diluting a substance, often to the point that it's unlikely that one molecule of the substance will exist in the final solution. The theory it's based on is "water memory", and science does not support such a theory.
As for evidence, here's a quick guide. It's not promising.
There's also James Randi's trick of taking 100 homeopathic sleeping pills. So far, he's still alive.
If you feel the fruit is helping pain then my(probably unwanted opinion) is that it aint cancer. Diet can help reduce pains and uncomfortable conditions and if you have felt a reduction in pain since starting pawpaw, then guesses are it was a less serious illness in the first place.
Which is good news for you.
As veg*ns I think we can all agree that in an ideal world, diet, fruit, herbs and 100% natural medications would be an amazing way to treat terminal illness, but as a realist for now if I were to fall ill with something like cancer, im pretty sure Id take the chemo and super strength pills. I value animals lives and want to reduce suffering but how can I do that if Im dead?
Which is good news for you.
As veg*ns I think we can all agree that in an ideal world, diet, fruit, herbs and 100% natural medications would be an amazing way to treat terminal illness, but as a realist for now if I were to fall ill with something like cancer, im pretty sure Id take the chemo and super strength pills. I value animals lives and want to reduce suffering but how can I do that if Im dead?
SummerRain
I dreamed that God would be forgiving.
Yes, I am saying homeopathy doesn't work.
The link you have quoted says:
"Homeopathy is a 'treatment' based on the use of highly diluted substances, which practitioners claim can cause the body to heal itself.
A 2010 House of Commons Science and Technology Committee report on homeopathy said that homeopathic remedies perform no better than placebos, and that the principles on which homeopathy is based are 'scientifically implausible'. This is also the view of the Chief Medical Officer, Professor Dame Sally Davies."
In addition to the summary of information and studies posted by das_nut, if you are interested, this campaign: homeopathy: there's nothing in it aims to educate people about homeopathy. Which says
Treatments that are proven not to work and recommended/sold by non-medical professionals are harmful. This summary "What's the harm" provides some interesting examples in the case of homeopathy. They are harmful because they can stop people from accessing treatment that could save their life or prevent illness. They are harmful because they provide misinformation, often masquerading as "science" and by charging people for this information and "treatment" people are being conned and misled. That is why homeopathy has a bad reputation.
I disagree with this being provided by the NHS and being supported by pharmacies who sell the products, because it is legitimising products that are proven not to work.
Not all natural medicine is proven not to work, or even isn't proven to work. I think it's important that the NHS and pharmacies take a firm stand so that it's easy for people to distinguish between unproven and proven remedies. Many doctors will recommend natural remedies with proven effects.
beancounter
The Fire That Burns Within
Mod Post:
The car vs health insurance thread has moved off topic to a discussion of natual medicine, so I'm splitting it off into its own thread.
Sorry folks, I ended up deleting the car insurance thread by mistake. If anyone wants to continue talking about car vs. health insurance, please start a new thread.
The car vs health insurance thread has moved off topic to a discussion of natual medicine, so I'm splitting it off into its own thread.
Sorry folks, I ended up deleting the car insurance thread by mistake. If anyone wants to continue talking about car vs. health insurance, please start a new thread.
thefadedone
Needs a life
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If you feel the fruit is helping pain then my(probably unwanted opinion) is that it aint cancer. Diet can help reduce pains and uncomfortable conditions and if you have felt a reduction in pain since starting pawpaw, then guesses are it was a less serious illness in the first place.
Which is good news for you.
As veg*ns I think we can all agree that in an ideal world, diet, fruit, herbs and 100% natural medications would be an amazing way to treat terminal illness, but as a realist for now if I were to fall ill with something like cancer, im pretty sure Id take the chemo and super strength pills. I value animals lives and want to reduce suffering but how can I do that if Im dead?
^This.
Honestly I cringe every time I hear someone say they are going against dr's orders and forgoing chemo and drugs and just relying on diet alone. I'm also greatly bothered by the influential people within the vegan community that promote the message of natural medicine and diet is the answer to all health issues. I find it highly irresponsible and disturbing.
When you are sick or in pain you become very vulnerable. You reach for anything that you believe might help.
