US Orlando Shooting at Pulse

[ledboots]

"Funerals for the 49 victims of Sunday's mass shooting at an Orlando nightclub are underway, and for those involved in helping families mourn the dead, the number of young lives lost has been overwhelming.

"I've been in the funeral business for 42 years, and in my 42 years in this industry we have never experienced anything else of this magnitude," Bob Healy, funeral director of Funeria San Juan in Kissimmee, Florida, which worked with the families of six of the victims, tells PEOPLE."...




Funerals Begin for Orlando Shooting Victims: 'The Numbers Are Daunting'

Please, there is a gun control thread.

 

[ledboots]

"APOPKA --

It’s a terrible reality for families who lost loved ones in the Pulse Nightclub shooting: the sudden need to plan a funeral. But one Orange County church is attempting to alleviate that burden.

Apopka church offering free funerals for victims, live streaming for families out of town
Church originally posted offer on Facebook, reaching more than a million people
RELATED: Greenwood Cemetery Offers resting place for victims

“It’s just a matter of us responding to a need we became aware of,” said Pastor Bernie Anderson, of Forest Lake Seventh Day Adventist Church in Apopka. “If indeed there was some places who were going to refuse services to LGBT, we weren’t going to be that place.”

Pastor Anderson said his wife called him Monday morning, after talking with chaplains caring for victims’ families. She told him that the families were concerned that they wouldn’t have places in which to have their funerals.

“She said, ‘Our church would be a place that would have these funerals,’ and I said, ‘of course, absolutely. Faith, sexuality is not a factor,” he added.

Anderson, and other church pastors, put together a simple Facebook post, not knowing if anyone would see it.

“It really caught fire, connected with people and reached over a million people,” Anderson said. “It’s not about our church, it’s about being a part of the community responding to horrific devastation.”

For those who can’t attend--perhaps family or friends who live far away--they’ve found a way to make them a part of the service. The church upgraded their audio visual equipment several weeks ago, allowing for online service streaming via eight cameras throughout the building.

“You can get people that maybe people online haven’t seen for a generation,” said Michael Fisher runs the media for Forest Lake Seventh Day Adventist Church. “It really gives people a sense of being there they wouldn’t of had otherwise.”

For Pastor Anderson, seeing Orlando’s response to the shooting is touching.

“That just restores a bit of hope and faith. And certainly for the faith community, that speaks well that we’re willing to step in,” he said. “In the face of such horrific evil being done, you do have a sense of hope.”

Pastor Anderson said several families have reached out after seeing their initial post. They also have connections to people who have offered services, like flowers, for free. For more information, families can call 407-869-0680.

“In this case, Orlando has really wrapped their arms around this event, and around this group of people in this community,” he said."
Apopka church offers free funerals for Pulse shooting victims, live streaming

 

[ledboots]

is weekend will see funerals and vigils for the 49 people who died in the Pulse nightclub shooting last Sunday.

Deonka Deidra Drayton was one of those people killed.

She was working at Pulse when the shooting happened. Community members came out to show their support for her at a vigil on Friday.

“She was just a fun spirited person and she wasn’t ashamed, she loved herself, she was just all around a perfect person, no complaints,” said family member Frank Drayton.

Four of the victims' funerals will be held Saturday:

Stanley Almodovar, 23, will be remembered at 1 p.m. at Calvario Church in Orlando. He graduated from East Ridge High School in Clermont and was a pharmacy technician.
Corey James Connell, 21, will have a service as well. He was an employee at a Publix in College Park and a student at Valencia College.
Funerals for 25-year-old Leroy Fernandez and Alejandro Barrios Martinez will also be held. Martinez’ mother lives in Cuba and has been issued a U.S. visa to travel to Orlando to claim her son's body.

As many as 50,000 people are expected to gather for a vigil at Lake Eola Sunday night.

Here is a list of the weekend vigils. Go here to see the names and pictures of those who died.
Weekend vigils will remember Pulse victims

 

[ledboots]

I will spoiler the the rest for space reasons, even though I don't want to

Spoiler

 

[Joe]

I like David Rovics. He ain't Bob Dylan, but he uses his music to say something provocative and sensible.

 

[FortyTwo]

I can't argue with you. If you think I'm being a bad ally, then I'm being a bad ally.

I mean - this is what I didn't want to do, though. You're an ally, but you should still get to have a voice about this. I don't want to have some kind of "gotcha" that shuts down any and all argument. That doesn't feel right.

At the same time, I don't want to come across as soft about this. Because people like me are dying left and right for being like me. Members of my community. I do think that anything less than actively lobbying for gun control at this point does necessarily mean not fighting for the right of people who are targeted in these shootings to live their lives, however well-intentioned it might be.

I respect you; in 99% of arguments we agree all the time, and you always seem to want to stand up for the little guy. That's awesome. That in itself is why your position in this thread frustrates me.

 

[Spang]

I mean, I don't get to decide if I'm a good ally or not. I still feel that gun control legislation will harm Black and Brown people, many of whom are LGBT, with racist over-policing.

 

[FortyTwo]

I mean, I don't get to decide if I'm a good ally or not. I still feel that gun control legislation will harm Black and Brown people, many of whom are LGBT, with racist over-policing.

I definitely agree with that. Minorities in our society get the short end of the stick in any situation because the majority goes against them and abuses their power to continue oppressing them. But I don't think we shouldn't pass laws that prevent violence on the grounds that police are shitheads. I think we need to be working on rectifying both situations. Just like how I agree that addressing hypermasculinity is beneficial to preventing violence but isn't enough.

To me this is a bit like saying "police over-arrest people of color; therefore police shouldn't be allowed to arrest people." The problem here isn't that police can arrest people, it's that the police are racist.

 

[Moll Flanders]

I know I don't live in the US, but the police can't all be total racists, even if there is a lot of institutional racism. It was the police who went in and helped those people who were trapped in the club. They do protect people and risk getting hurt or killed themselves in their job. I think you must have to be quite brave to be a police officer in the US with all the gun violence!

But I don't think we shouldn't pass laws that prevent violence on the grounds that police are shitheads. I think we need to be working on rectifying both situations. Just like how I agree that addressing hypermasculinity is beneficial to preventing violence but isn't enough.

To me this is a bit like saying "police over-arrest people of color; therefore police shouldn't be allowed to arrest people." The problem here isn't that police can arrest people, it's that the police are racist.

Right. I think you could work on all the different problems at once, it doesn't have to be one thing over the other.

50,000 people attend a vigil one week on.
Orlando nightclub shooting: city pauses to remember one week after Pulse massacre | US news | The Guardian

 

[ledboots]

The 911 call transcript from the killer during the shootings. A censored version had previously been released.:

"Transcript of Orlando Police Department 911 Calls, June 12, 2016

2:35 a.m.: Shooter contacted a 911 operator from inside Pulse. The call lasted approximately 50 seconds, the details of which are set out below:

(OD) Orlando Police Dispatcher

(OM) Omar Mateen

OD: Emergency 911, this is being recorded.

OM: In the name of God the Merciful, the beneficent [Arabic]

OD: What?

OM: Praise be to God, and prayers as well as peace be upon the prophet of God [Arabic]. I wanna let you know, I’m in Orlando and I did the shootings.

OD: What’s your name?

OM: My name is I pledge of allegiance to Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi of the Islamic State.

OD: Ok, What’s your name?

OM: I pledge allegiance to Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi may God protect him [Arabic], on behalf of the Islamic State.

OD: Alright, where are you at?

OM: In Orlando.

OD: Where in Orlando?

[End of call.]
16-708
Office of Public Affairs'
Joint Statement From Justice Department and FBI Regarding Transcript Related to the Orlando Terror Attack | OPA | Department of Justice

 

[ledboots]

Error sorry

 

[FortyTwo]

The murderer's boastings and affiliation honestly do not concern me. That's what he wanted to be remembered about this. We can't let that happen.

 

[ledboots]

Usually motive is an important part of criminal investigation. Especially if he had co-conspirators, the reason the murderer killed 49 of my neighbors matters to me. How can we stop repeat crimes without the facts?

 

[FortyTwo]

Usually motive is an important part of criminal investigation. Especially if he had co-conspirators, the reason the murderer killed 49 of my neighbors matters to me. How can we stop repeat crimes without the facts?

The reason is that he was homophobic. If those beliefs came from ISIS then they came from ISIS. They could have come from a Christian pastor, or an atheistic eugenicist. That doesn't matter to me. It should only matter to law enforcement as far as it would be useful to track down other planned attacks. It sure as hell shouldn't be the media circus it has been.

His co-conspirators would be basically powerless if we banned assault weapons. We can stop repeat crimes through gun control and social change.

 

[Joe]

As a mentally ill, closeted gay guy, this attitude does not sit well with me.

I hope you do not find this question offensive or overly personal, but I do not understand your use of the phrase closeted gay guy. Would you explain, please? In what ways in your life off this Board are you "closeted"? What motivates you to be closeted? Just not wanting to be hassled or persecuted?

For your information, I am straight. But I try to understand other people's perspectives.

 

[FortyTwo]

I hope you do not find this question offensive or overly personal, but I do not understand your use of the phrase closeted gay guy. Would you explain, please? In what ways in your life off this Board are you "closeted"? What motivates you to be closeted? Just not wanting to be hassled or persecuted?

For your information, I am straight. But I try to understand other people's perspectives.

You are always so formal, I appreciate that.

Putting under a spoiler because it's off-topic:

Spoiler

So, I realized I was gay sometime in high school, when I re-examined what I thought was my attraction to women and realized that I just had a lot of spite for my male classmates (due to massive traumatic bullying) and much less for my female ones, who hadn't ruined my life over and over for fun. I was misinterpreting my kindness and affection toward girls as attraction. Once I started paying attention to boys, I realized what actual attraction felt like, and that was the end of that. Now, I went to high school in a fairly rural area, which, although in the North, definitely behaved like the South most of the time. Hospitable for the most part, but filled with bigots. So although I wasn't surrounded by blatant homophobic crimes, there was a lot of casual homophobia, and coming out was really not an option. I was worried for my safety, really. Plus, there's a certain dread that comes with coming out to someone that I'd like to avoid experiencing as often as I can. Now I'm going to college, and while the environment is (mostly) better, I still haven't come out to most people. It's not really any of their business, and I do sometimes feel unsafe (the shooting has not helped me to feel safer). Being visibly gay is a risk I don't want to take, so while I'm not ashamed, and I'll certainly end up coming out to everyone sooner or later, it's something I want to put off for as long as possible.

 

[Andy_T]

@FortyTwo , I wish you luck to live your life happily and fulfilled!!!

I understand your challenges and see how that can make it even more difficult than for the rest of us...

 

[ledboots]

The reason is that he was homophobic. If those beliefs came from ISIS then they came from ISIS. They could have come from a Christian pastor, or an atheistic eugenicist. That doesn't matter to me. It should only matter to law enforcement as far as it would be useful to track down other planned attacks. It sure as hell shouldn't be the media circus it has been.

His co-conspirators would be basically powerless if we banned assault weapons. We can stop repeat crimes through gun control and social change.

The reason he killed and terrorized people is that he was a radicalized Muslim. I have not seen anything that demonstrates that his motive was homophobia, except a comment his father made. A friend of his from his mosque reported him to the FBI two years ago for making statements supportive of the Boston marathon bombing and the 9/11 attacks. He recently scoped out Disney as a possible target.

It is beyond horrible that the killer chose a busy nightclub where mostly young, mostly gay, people go to feel safe and celebrate life. That is what terror is--to make people feel unsafe in the future, unsafe in the present, unsafe in their world.

You can say we have to do something to help, and I get that feeling. Unfortunately, acting in haste, like staging sit-ins to get hastily prepared bills hastily passed, usually results in a bad law and a bad precedent. The political handwringing before these young people are even laid to rest is unthinkable. If it were as easy as banning a certain type of gun, I would help collect them all and melt them down myself. When the shooter's rifle jammed and failed, he began killing people with his handgun....If there magically were no guns at all, he would make a bomb, or cut off people's heads with a knife. The hatred didn't come from the guns, it came from the killer. He explains his motive clearly.

 

[Andy_T]

The reason he killed and terrorized people is that he was a radicalized Muslim. I have not seen anything that demonstrates that his motive was homophobia, except a comment his father made. A friend of his from his mosque reported him to the FBI two years ago for making statements supportive of the Boston marathon bombing and the 9/11 attacks. He recently scoped out Disney as a possible target.

@ledboots, if that is what you believe, can you explain why the GOP would want to (and repeatedly did) block laws that would allow terror suspects to buy firearms? That seems a bit counter-intuitive...

We never said that the hatred came from the gun.
All that most of us here say is that the easy availability of guns makes it much more easy to act out that hatred ....

And please, do not try to explain to us that this guy would have killed 50 people with a knife.
That seems a bit insulting to our intelligence.

 

[ledboots]

@ledboots, if that is what you believe, can you explain why the GOP would want to (and repeatedly did) block laws that would allow terror suspects to buy firearms? That seems a bit counter-intuitive...

We never said that the hatred came from the gun.
All that most of us here say is that the easy availability of guns makes it much more easy to act out that hatred ....

And please, do not try to explain to us that this guy would have killed 50 people with a knife.
That seems a bit insulting to our intelligence.

He was in there for hours, he could easily have killed lots of people with a knife. But why use a knife when there are hundreds of millions of guns in the country? Only a small percentage of which would be banned by any "assault weapon" law.

In the US, one is presumed innocent until proven guilty, and for good reason. The terror watchlist contains many many names, mostly middle eastern and Muslim. It is a watchlist for suspected terrorists, and by its very nature casts a large net to catch a few criminals. Terror suspects are not terrorists or killers. They are suspects. To make laws that target those on the watchlist would end up punishing the innocent people on that list, mostly Muslims. Even the no-fly list has errors, famously that infants have been mistakenly put on the list. In addition, that also sets a precedent that the government can ban anyone they want from obtaining a weapon just by adding a name to a government list.
----
"We" never said that the hatred comes from a gun, you said above. The very use of the word "we" explains why only people with similar viewpoints to yours usually post in the political threads on this forum. I normally would try not to participate, but the geographical closeness of this attack, as well as personally knowing one young man who lost his friend but escaped death by ripping off a bathroom stall door and running past the killer as he entered the bathroom, makes this one too close to home. I know I am not changing any minds here, and I know I am a poor debater. I hate conflict, hate debating, but sometimes feel the need to be heard anyway.