MadamSarcastra
MadamSarcastra, over & out.
I'll repost this.... please sign & pass it on. Sign the petition: Ban Assault Weapons Now
I think you might be surprised, in an unpleasant way. There is a very strong vein of homophobia that runs through a significant number of mainstream Christian denominations in the U.S.
FortyTwo
Custom Title
I mean, anti-Islamic sentiment in the US is almost always racist as well. If Muslims in the US were mostly white then we wouldn't see the same backlash.
My personal problem with that article is that it refers to a 2009 poll of UK muslims that found that 0 % of those polled tolerate different sexual orientation, while there is actually also a 2015 poll available (easily found as "related article" to the original Guardian article) that shows that 18 % of the UK Muslim population accept it now (which is still low, but definitely much better than 0 %).
Mind you, I am writing this from Malaysia, one of many Muslim countries where it is illegal and punishable with jail time to have a different sexual orientation
If you're in Malaysia then you probably have a very different perspective on this. I won't contest you on it, that's definitely way too far out of my lived experience. Just be aware that in the US, Muslims are considered basically an ethno-religious identity; there are plenty of black Muslims as well, with very few white Muslims.
beancounter
The Fire That Burns Within
Here's some more information on the shooter and his family.
All opinions expressed are that of the author.
Orlando gunman’s wife warned him not to carry out attack, official says; FBI says ‘no impending charges’
All opinions expressed are that of the author.
Orlando gunman’s wife warned him not to carry out attack, official says; FBI says ‘no impending charges’
beancounter
The Fire That Burns Within
Witness: Omar Mateen had been at Orlando gay nightclub many times
Here's another piece on the shooter. All opinions expressed are that of the author.
Understanding the motives and psychology of the shooter and those like him is important. And it's important to discuss so we can try to reduce the number of victims in the future.
Here's another piece on the shooter. All opinions expressed are that of the author.
Understanding the motives and psychology of the shooter and those like him is important. And it's important to discuss so we can try to reduce the number of victims in the future.
Last edited:
MOD POST
After some deleting the thread is now open for business again. Let's try our best to stay on topic!
After some deleting the thread is now open for business again. Let's try our best to stay on topic!
beancounter
The Fire That Burns Within
The Risk of Violence
Assuming that guns will not be outlawed in the US any time soon, how do we reduce the number of incidents. As the article mentions, and I agree, preventing those with mental illness from owning guns will not have any measurable results.
I think preventing those on FBI terrorism watch list from owning guns would be a start. If someone feels they've been unjustly listed, they should be allowed to appeal.
Domestic terrorist and those from abroad are very different. Home grown terrorist/mass shooters are typically under educated and come from poor backgrounds. Whereas those from overseas tend to be well educated and come from middle class or wealthy backgrounds, so it would seem at least two different approaches are needed.
Psychological screening is an option, but testers are human and could introduce bias into their analysis.
A significant part of the problem stems from radicalized religious beliefs. How do we combat that?
Of course, the US being closes pals with the biggest supporter of terrorism doesn't help.
How do we identify potential actors without engaging in wholesale 1984 surveillance?
Any additional thoughts thoughts or ideas?
Assuming that guns will not be outlawed in the US any time soon, how do we reduce the number of incidents. As the article mentions, and I agree, preventing those with mental illness from owning guns will not have any measurable results.
I think preventing those on FBI terrorism watch list from owning guns would be a start. If someone feels they've been unjustly listed, they should be allowed to appeal.
Domestic terrorist and those from abroad are very different. Home grown terrorist/mass shooters are typically under educated and come from poor backgrounds. Whereas those from overseas tend to be well educated and come from middle class or wealthy backgrounds, so it would seem at least two different approaches are needed.
Psychological screening is an option, but testers are human and could introduce bias into their analysis.
A significant part of the problem stems from radicalized religious beliefs. How do we combat that?
Of course, the US being closes pals with the biggest supporter of terrorism doesn't help.
How do we identify potential actors without engaging in wholesale 1984 surveillance?
Any additional thoughts thoughts or ideas?
Last edited:
Spang
Foot Fetisher
- Joined
- May 31, 2012
- Reaction score
- 6,172
- Age
- 46
There are more than 1.1 million names on the so-called terror watchlist. Countless Americans, including babies, are misidentified as terrorists every single day.
beancounter
The Fire That Burns Within
Yea, you're right. That's not the best place to start. How about those who are being investigated, those shown to have ties to terrorist organizations, and those who've stated in no uncertain terms that they support the beliefs of known terrorist groups, like the Orlando shooter.
Spang
Foot Fetisher
- Joined
- May 31, 2012
- Reaction score
- 6,172
- Age
- 46
beancounter
The Fire That Burns Within
Yea, part of the solution in the US would be to increase the quality of education in places that need it the most, and to provide more opportunities. But as long as we have a congress that supports vodoo theories like trickle down economics, those initiatives are off the table.
Utah Lt. Gov: 'My Heart Has Changed' After Orlando Shooting
Very decent.
ETA: Huh. I just realized that I wouldn't have given it a second thought if it had been said by a Democrat, but because he's a Republican, I thought it was unusual enough to comment on.
Very decent.
ETA: Huh. I just realized that I wouldn't have given it a second thought if it had been said by a Democrat, but because he's a Republican, I thought it was unusual enough to comment on.
Last edited:
Not being American citizens, those from abroad would not be able to legally buy guns, I understand.
Yes, but it would be a starting point. Quite clearly if a person wanting to buy a gun shares the name of someone on the terrorism watch list, this can be sorted out by the respective authorities in reasonable time (a few weeks). Babies should not buy guns, anyway.
On the other hand, when I read the article about how an 8-year old is on a terror watch list and can not board an airplane without getting patted down, and the helpful ticketing person suggests to simply use his middle name next time when booking a flight, as this would then not ring any warning bells ... I hope that those evil terrorists don't find out about that nifty trick...
Last edited:
Well, here's the catch ... yes, the Orlando shooter was at that watch list for some time, but he was reviewed by the FBI and deemed not a threat. So even if that law had not been stopped by the GOP, he still would have been able to buy guns.
Quite likely his ties and sympathies to IS or other radical muslim groups were not really strong enough to act upon, but unfortunately his hate/repression of LGBT+ people (as it seems, he might have been a repressed bi-sexual himself, which obviously clashed with his self-view as Muslim) obviously was.
And if you would get barred from owning a gun in the US for beating up your wife (which is something else he supposedly did), well, I guess then the problem with guns would be much less critical....
Spang
Foot Fetisher
- Joined
- May 31, 2012
- Reaction score
- 6,172
- Age
- 46
No, using a flawed and discriminatory list would not be a good starting point.
So what, if anything, do you propose that might actually be a starting point, short of implementing your idea of a utopian society? (I don't actually buy the idea that poverty, lack of education and discrimination are the reasons for the high numbers of gun deaths in the U.S.; there are many countries with worse poverty, educational issues and discrimination than the U.S. has that don't have the death by gun problem we have.)
FortyTwo
Custom Title
My starting point, personally, is to set in place a ban the sale and possession of assault weapons.
That's also the ending point?
That's also the ending point?
Spang
Foot Fetisher
- Joined
- May 31, 2012
- Reaction score
- 6,172
- Age
- 46
The vast majority of homicides, approximately 90%, are committed by men. Of mass-shootings, 98% are perpetrated by men. Men also commit the majority of other violent crimes. I think addressing hyper-masculinity is a good start.
Last edited:
