Rampant Racism in America

[MadamSarcastra]

 

[Andy_T]

From the article...

"It isn't Richard Spencer calling the cops on me for farming while Black. It's nervous White women in yoga pants with 'I'm with Her' and 'Coexist' stickers on their German SUVs."

 

[Amy SF]

I'm getting really, really tired of nonwhites of both sexes blaming both societal problems and their own personal problems on white women. Because our political views and our lifestyle choices are somehow to blame for everything that's wrong with America today and that means it's okay to insult us and our political views and our lifestyle choices. Like yoga pants and Starbucks coffee are suddenly the reason why cops murder black people or something. And nonwhite women get a pass on their political views and their lifestyle choices because they're TWICE AS OPPRESSED and nobody is allowed to say anything offensive about them. But white women are at fault for our own existence and our choices in life are automatically wrong and we have to shut up if we say "the wrong thing".

 

[beancounter]

One last thing on the Boston "free speech" event - You may hear the Alt Right complain that their free speech was intentionally squelched in Boston, because "no one could hear them"

Well I was watching the live pre-event coverage of the event broadcast from a local station. About 30 minutes before the scheduled start time, one of the reporters made an offhand comment that the speakers couldn't get a loudspeaker or some device to project their voices because they hadn't raise enough in donations.

So, they couldn't be heard because of their own poor lack of planning and funding, not because people were trying to prevent them from speaking...

 

[MadamSarcastra]

The Noxious Combination of Racism, the Alt Right and the Upper Class

 

[Amy SF]

This aired on tonight's installment of So You Think You Can Dance about 10 minutes ago. (Pacific Standard Time)

 

[FortyTwo]

I'm getting really, really tired of nonwhites of both sexes blaming both societal problems and their own personal problems on white women. Because our political views and our lifestyle choices are somehow to blame for everything that's wrong with America today and that means it's okay to insult us and our political views and our lifestyle choices. Like yoga pants and Starbucks coffee are suddenly the reason why cops murder black people or something. And nonwhite women get a pass on their political views and their lifestyle choices because they're TWICE AS OPPRESSED and nobody is allowed to say anything offensive about them. But white women are at fault for our own existence and our choices in life are automatically wrong and we have to shut up if we say "the wrong thing".

Amy, I love you, but this is super racist.

"Nonwhites" is no way to refer to anyone, and jokes about yoga pants and Starbucks are beyond harmless, especially compared to the **** people of color have to deal with. "Not being able to take spicy food" and "liking silly irrelevant lifestyle choices" really are not negative stereotypes. We can live with it.

 

[beancounter]

How is it racist for Amy to want to be judged as an individual and not as a stereotype?

Amy, I love you, but this is super racist.

"Nonwhites" is no way to refer to anyone, and jokes about yoga pants and Starbucks are beyond harmless, especially compared to the **** people of color have to deal with. "Not being able to take spicy food" and "liking silly irrelevant lifestyle choices" really are not negative stereotypes. We can live with it.

 

[silva]

I absolutely understand how FortyTwo sees it as racist, although I'm sure Amysf doesn't.
The entire idea of white people are having it hard because of their race is so beyond laughable. It's like going to an emergency room with an ear ache and complaining because they're taking people who can't breathe in before them.
We never resolved the wrongs done to the generations following slavery. We said "oh well, I guess we can't use you anymore. So long" . We passed laws to end segregation, but we never did ANYTHING that addressed amending the obscene horrors we put an entire race through- to this day. If anyone now were to be kidnapped, tortured, raped, chained, forced to labor at the will of another no court would ever just say to the perpetrator "you have to let them go now..." and tell the victim to quit whining about having nothing. And shame the victim for being victimized. and shame their children for being their children. and shame their grandchildren for not being more like their assailants. Now that time has passed, and little resolved other than 'sensitivity' training for most white people, few of this generation have understanding. They have misplaced guilt, and they certainly have black friends and everythings cool- but they don't appreciate the subtle rifts. Hell, neither do black people. It's been too long to just think everythings cool
It irks me no end to hear these alt-whites saying their history is being lost out of political correctness. If there was any justice we'd have the corporations that profited from slavery turned over to the real owners of the idea which for so many would be the ancestors of slaves.
I got off topic, sorry

 

[beancounter]

So because many black stereotypes are worse than white stereotypes, it's socially acceptable to stereotype whites?

Or to put it another way. Both you and 42 focused on how poorly blacks have been treated throughout history. And of course, that's all true, but that still doesn't justify stereotyping whites.

I absolutely understand how FortyTwo sees it as racist, although I'm sure Amysf doesn't.

 

[FortyTwo]

Stereotypes themselves are not harmful. When those stereotypes are upheld by dangerous racist history, and continue to enforce ideas that not just hurt peoples' feelings but cause real violence toward them, that becomes a real problem. Anything less, compared to the **** people of color get every day, really does come across as whiny.

If your allyship to people of color dissolves into calling them "nonwhites" as soon as someone makes a harmless joke about eating spicy food or Starbucks or doing yoga, then it's not really allyship. It's like if someone claims to be an ally to the gay community and then turns around and whines that there's no straight pride.

This probably seems harsh but now is not the time to coddle each other. As white people we have a responsibility to be better, now more than ever.

 

[Andy_T]

Well, what can you say, White Women and White Men in America did elect Dump as their president.
So yeah, some of the criticism is very likely justified, IMO.

If you personally did not vote for Dump or call the police on people of colour behaving suspiciously around your place, then yes, you are absolutely right to say "Well, not all of them ..." ... but yeah, the majority likely is guilty. Let's be very open, the majority in the US (or elsewhere) is also very clearly not vegan or vegetarian, so we as the forum here likely do not represent that "majority".

 

[FortyTwo]

There's also the fact that a lot of these stereotypes against white people are not just harmless, but incredibly true.

Like I can't get a third of the way through a (vegan, spicy sweet chili) bag of Doritos without tearing up and guzzling several bottles of water from pain.

 

[Jamie in Chile]

but this is super racist.

"Nonwhites" is no way to refer to anyone

I think this is very harsh and I especially don't agree with "super racist".

It does not look racist to me and I don't think "nonwhites" is that bad. Isn't it just another word for "ethnic minorities"? This is where we might be crossing a line from fighting discrimination into excessive political correctness. If enough "nonwhites" were to say they don't like the word enough times, perhaps we shouldn't use it....

With regards to what Amy says "I'm getting really, really tired of nonwhites of both sexes blaming both societal problems and their own personal problems on white women" maybe if it says white people instead of women it might be dubious, but perhaps she's saying women shouldn't be blamed specifically instead of men. Which, would be a fair point, albeit it probably isn't true to say that women specifically are really getting as much heat as she's claiming. So, you don't want to fall into the trap of feeling vicitimized even though you actually have some privileges in life, and others don't, and are victimized more.

Thanks everyone for all the updates and stories prior to that little discussion as well, interesting reading.

 

[Jamie in Chile]

Based on an exit poll and not actual counting of votes:

Clinton Couldn’t Win Over White Women

White men voted for Trump over Clinton by 63% - 31% so that group has a lot to answer for with this President, but even white women voted for Trump over Clinton by 53% - 43%. I found this to be quite surprising when I first saw it, that so many white women chose a sexist man over a woman.

 

[beancounter]

Effectively blaming all whites for the actions of relatively few whites, is racist in and of itself...

Claiming that it's justified to stereotype whites (male or female) because blacks themselves are stereotyped is problematic. The bottom line is that no one should be judged on the basis of a stereotype.

Pointing fingers at people for the actions of their ancestors and demanding reparations from them for something they never participated in is ridiculous. Should we round up all German millennials for their great-grandfathers's participation in WWII?...

Stereotyping people contributes to the us vs. them perspective that is pervasive throughout society. It doesn't solve anything (other than perhaps sour grapes). Rather it just continues the process of rubbing salt into a wound, and perpetuates an endless cycle of hate and mistrust. (Arguing about who's wound is bigger, doesn't solve anything...)

 

[silva]

Just because there's no intent of racism doesn't mean it's not racist. We have a young newcaster here that used the term "porch monkey" once. She got horrified angry responses, but her reaction and explaination was that while she had heard that phrase used she really had no idea what was meant by it, and only thought it referred to little kids hanging out, like maybe they were grounded and couldn't go outside of their homes-which was very believable. She meant nothing racist, but yes, that was a super racist comment regardless of intention.

If you think of someone saying "those non-members" in terms of areas with country clubs, or "those kids in non private schools", "not college educated" you might see the problem here.

It does not look racist to me and I don't think "nonwhites" is that bad. Isn't it just another word for "ethnic minorities"? This is where we might be crossing a line from fighting discrimination into excessive political correctness. If enough "nonwhites" were to say they don't like the word enough times, perhaps we shouldn't use it....

Uh, yeah, those 'nonwhites' have been acknowledging this term as racist for as long as I've been around.
The reality is that so called "political correctness' has always gone on- under the term 'common courtesty". It seems it's used more now as a push back when we stubbornly refuse to accept that things that don't bother us can be hurtful to others, and we try and understand why instead of insisting on being able to do them.

Stereotyping isn't going to go away. It's human nature. Better to appreciate that prejudice is simply what we've been exposed to, and it's different for everyone. We shouldn't hate or fear those differences, or their stereotypes.
I was certainly teased about the 'white women got Trump elected', so what? Its not as though that stereotype wasn't caused by the facts behind it! If I were disliked, if I were blamed for being a white women and targeted as someONE who caused Trumps election- that would be hateful. Being teased as being part of a stereotype is simple an observation-and people can and should, learn from those observations.

 

[Andy_T]

Should we round up all German millennials for their great-grandfathers's participation in WWII?...

Nope, but it might make sense to "round them up" if they would now vote again to establish such a regime anew. (about 10-15 % Germany-wide, possibly 25 % in the so-called "New countries", the former Eastern German Democratic Republic)

That would be something they are guilty of and should be made responsible for - same as Dump voters.

 

[Amy SF]

I could have said peoples of color. My fingers were typing fast and it came out as nonwhites instead. It's supposed to mean the same thing as peoples of color. Everyone else on VeggieViews who knows me knows I'm not racist and wouldn't intentionally use racist terms. I was simply using a term that meant "not white".

As for white women specifically, yes, I meant exactly that. The farmer singles out specifically progressive white women and uses stereotypes of them to make some sort of point about racism. It doesn't matter whether it was a joke or not. As a white person, I've heard racist jokes told right in front of me because the joke-teller assumed I'd find them funny. As a progressive white woman, I took offense to those stereotypes he used and the fact that people find it so easy to use those stereotypes and insult white women, especially progressive white women like myself. If they tried doing the same thing with progressive women of color, they couldn't get away with it without being criticized.

 

[beancounter]

So in essence what you're saying is that negative stereotypes of whites is just "being teased" and "just a simple observation", but negative stereotypes of blacks is racism.

Sounds like a double standard to me.

Just because there's no intent of racism doesn't mean it's not racist. We have a young newcaster here that used the term "porch monkey" once. She got horrified angry responses, but her reaction and explaination was that while she had heard that phrase used she really had no idea what was meant by it, and only thought it referred to little kids hanging out, like maybe they were grounded and couldn't go outside of their homes-which was very believable. She meant nothing racist, but yes, that was a super racist comment regardless of intention.

If you think of someone saying "those non-members" in terms of areas with country clubs, or "those kids in non private schools", "not college educated" you might see the problem here.


Uh, yeah, those 'nonwhites' have been acknowledging this term as racist for as long as I've been around.
The reality is that so called "political correctness' has always gone on- under the term 'common courtesty". It seems it's used more now as a push back when we stubbornly refuse to accept that things that don't bother us can be hurtful to others, and we try and understand why instead of insisting on being able to do them.

Stereotyping isn't going to go away. It's human nature. Better to appreciate that prejudice is simply what we've been exposed to, and it's different for everyone. We shouldn't hate or fear those differences, or their stereotypes.
I was certainly teased about the 'white women got Trump elected', so what? Its not as though that stereotype wasn't caused by the facts behind it! If I were disliked, if I were blamed for being a white women and targeted as someONE who caused Trumps election- that would be hateful. Being teased as being part of a stereotype is simple an observation-and people can and should, learn from those observations.