Reasons and processes behind reverting to meat-eating?

[Second Summer]

I got chewable this time, thinking it would be easier to take
Haven't had a multivitamin in months because of how much I dread taking them. They're usually big and stinky.

So are you saying you haven't had any B12 supplements in months? If you're a lacto-vegetarian it may be okay. If you're vegan, unless you're careful to consume sufficient B12-fortified foods, you could be putting your health at risk. You're probably okay if you start supplementing properly a.s.a.p.

And do you really need 1,000x the daily b12 you need? Isn't that bad for your liver? Drinking is too, but at least you get a buzz from it!

Healthy people (i.e. people who don't have any absorption issues) don't need a daily 1000 micrograms B12. Supposedly it won't hurt you either, though. It may be a good thing if you haven't had a proper source of B12 in a while though, to increase your levels a bit.

 

[Danielle]

So are you saying you haven't had any B12 supplements in months? If you're a lacto-vegetarian it may be okay. If you're vegan, unless you're careful to consume sufficient B12-fortified foods, you could be putting your health at risk. You're probably okay if you start supplementing properly a.s.a.p.


Healthy people don't need a daily 1000 micrograms B12. Supposedly it won't hurt you either, though. It may be a good thing if you haven't had a proper source of B12 in a while though, to increase your levels a bit.

I don't eat egg or milk (or meat.. lol) but I don't consider myself a true vegan. I probably do get some b12, but I don't think it's enough.
It says eat 2 of them and take them up to 3 times a day. I should probably take two of them three times a day, right?

 

[nigel1]

So are you saying you haven't had any B12 supplements in months? If you're a lacto-vegetarian it may be okay. If you're vegan, unless you're careful to consume sufficient B12-fortified foods, you could be putting your health at risk. You're probably okay if you start supplementing properly a.s.a.p.


Healthy people (i.e. people who don't have any absorption issues) don't need a daily 1000 micrograms B12. Supposedly it won't hurt you either, though. It may be a good thing if you haven't had a proper source of B12 in a while though, to increase your levels a bit.

The dosage is that high but the absorption rate is pretty low so you don't take much of it in, especially if it's not the sublingual type.

I think the retitling of the thread in the way you did is a bit unfair and self-righteous on your part, particularly after the conversation initiated. "Renunciation" suggests some measure of defiance or a solid and outspoken change of heart. It implies that the person who changed thinks that they had been wrong with their previous choice. There are many reasons why people may alter their diet (and other things), often with regret.

 

[PTree15]

I have two friends at work who went vegetarian for health reasons and just found it unsustainable for them after a few years. One now actually has a small farm with her husband and they raise chickens for eggs and meat and also pigs for food . They are into organic eating. The other one gave up when she met her SO, who did not share her desire to be vegetarian.

I think familial and social pressures play a big role. I know I often get the "but you're not really making a difference so why bother" from a lot of people. I usually answer that it makes a difference to my mental and physical well-being. I also think that in this age of convenience, some people consider a veg*n way of life too much work.

 

[SummerRain]

I was a vegetarian for years, then ate meat, then went vegan (or followed a vegan diet, or a dietary vegan, or whatever - I know IS gets upset when you phrase it wrongly, but I'm sure you understand what I mean) and despite daily sublinguals and all kinds of fortified foods, over 3 years my b12 levels sunk so low I was showing physical symptoms of deficiency. We tried to "treat" it for two years. Apparently there are people who just can't get what they need through fortification. After that my only choice was to experiment with b12 injections every two weeks, which I don't see as a solution, or try to work in some alternatives, so I cycle in some animal protein every now and again. It's a better option for me than permanent neurological damage.
In my case I didn't "fall off the wagon" but made a deliberate, calculated choice. I don't see my case as apostasy; I think it depends on your motives in the first place before you can call it that.

That's interesting, I've never heard of somebody who couldn't get B12 from fortified foods/supplements. If there was a health reason why I couldn't be vegan, I wouldn't be either, I'd just try to do that in the most ethical way I could. I think if you need animal products to be healthy, there's nothing inherently wrong with eating them.

There are other health reasons I think would make veganism difficult too - if going vegan would negativly impact recovery from an eating disorder, complex allergies, bowel problems that mean you need to severely limit fibre intake (I knew somebody who couldn't eat any nuts, beans, or large amounts of fruit/vegetables... I'm not sure you could be a vegan with those kind of restrictions).

I think the reason though, that most people talk about "falling off the band wagon"/etc, is because for the large majority of people who stop being vegan, it isn't due to inability to be vegan healthily. Lots of people will say they couldn't live on a vegan diet, without every trying to properly plan nutrition or see a doctor. I understand your sentiment though - it must be frustrating when there's a medical reason why you couldn't be a healthy vegan.

As for B12, in the UK you don't get health check ups so unless there's a problem you're unlikely to get B12 checked. I had mine checked quite a lot though for other medical reasons, and they were always fine, even when my eating was poor. I expect though, if you (general you, not nigel!) did go to your GP and explain you were vegan, and concerned, they would check them for you.

 

[Moll Flanders]

I have two friends at work who went vegetarian for health reasons and just found it unsustainable for them after a few years. One now actually has a small farm with her husband and they raise chickens for eggs and meat and also pigs for food . They are into organic eating. The other one gave up when she met her SO, who did not share her desire to be vegetarian.

Yes, I have read a few people online say that they were vegetarian but then started dating meat-eaters or farmers and went back to being omni and raising their own animals on smallholdings. It seems like a bit of a drastic lifestyle change.

As for B12, in the UK you don't get health check ups so unless there's a problem you're unlikely to get B12 checked. I had mine checked quite a lot though for other medical reasons, and they were always fine, even when my eating was poor. I expect though, if you (general you, not nigel!) did go to your GP and explain you were vegan, and concerned, they would check them for you.

I did ask if I could be tested for B12 when I had a blood test and the GP said they usually only tested B12 if there was a health reason. Maybe I should make up a fake symptom and insist next time.

 

[SummerRain]

I did ask if I could be tested for B12 when I had a blood test and the GP said they usually only tested B12 if there was a health reason. Maybe I should make up a fake symptom and insist next time.

Oh really, what a pain, although I suppose if you aren't showing any symptoms - that's a good sign . It might depend on your GP (you could always try another one in your practice).

They were doing bone scans for medical research recently at my uni, but I didn't fit the criteria, I'd like to see what mine is, both because I am vegan and because of past health problems. But it wasn't meant to be!

 

[Second Summer]

then went vegan (or followed a vegan diet, or a dietary vegan, or whatever - I know IS gets upset when you phrase it wrongly, but I'm sure you understand what I mean)

Yes, you mean "strict vegetarian who ate a vegan diet".

The dosage is that high but the absorption rate is pretty low so you don't take much of it in, especially if it's not the sublingual type.

Yes, but the absorption rate varies with the dosage. With a lower dosage, the absorption rate is much higher. According to veganhealth.org: "Absorption of B12 varies from about 50%, if about 1 mcg or less is consumed, to about 0.5% for doses of 1000 mcgs (1 mg) or above." They consider a single daily dosage of 10 mcgs or more as sufficient. An even smaller total daily amount is needed if spread out in smaller dosages over the coarse of a day.

I think the retitling of the thread in the way you did is a bit unfair and self-righteous on your part, particularly after the conversation initiated. "Renunciation" suggests some measure of defiance or a solid and outspoken change of heart. It implies that the person who changed thinks that they had been wrong with their previous choice. There are many reasons why people may alter their diet (and other things), often with regret.

"Self-righteous"? I hope not. Sometimes it's difficult to please everyone. I've re-named the thread again, hopefully to everyone's satisfaction.

 

[Second Summer]

I did ask if I could be tested for B12 when I had a blood test and the GP said they usually only tested B12 if there was a health reason. Maybe I should make up a fake symptom and insist next time.

I said something about being tired etc. one time I wanted to find out, which together with my dietary practices was reason good enough for a test. Of course, when the results arrived I think it turned out they hadn't tested the B12 levels after all, but they did test a number of other things. All these other things were fine though.

 

[ledboots]

I was a vegetarian for years, then ate meat, then went vegan (or followed a vegan diet, or a dietary vegan, or whatever - I know IS gets upset when you phrase it wrongly, but I'm sure you understand what I mean) and despite daily sublinguals and all kinds of fortified foods, over 3 years my b12 levels sunk so low I was showing physical symptoms of deficiency. We tried to "treat" it for two years. Apparently there are people who just can't get what they need through fortification. After that my only choice was to experiment with b12 injections every two weeks, which I don't see as a solution, or try to work in some alternatives, so I cycle in some animal protein every now and again. It's a better option for me than permanent neurological damage.

In my case I didn't "fall off the wagon" but made a deliberate, calculated choice. I don't see my case as apostasy; I think it depends on your motives in the first place before you can call it that.

Do you have pernicious anemia? Omnis who have that still need B12 injections. I hope you're getting your levels checked regularly.

 

[ledboots]

Only one 'core' reason.

Never understood the principle that it is better to suffer harm (in whatever way) than to be a cause of harm.

That's the 'ahimsic' principle basicaly.

The absolute reverse of common sense.

Extremely uncommon sense, in fact.

I don't understand what you mean.

 

[Mischief]

I don't understand what you mean.

He's saying that, if there is a choice between suffering harm or inflicting it on others, the ethical choice is to suffer the harm. For instance, if you were told that you were going to develop cancer, but if you push the red button, the cancer that was destined for you would instead settle in your neighbor and kill him.

It's not a situation of defending oneself from an aggressor. It's a question of making a conscious decision to offload one's suffering onto another blameless victim.

IMO, the ethical choice is to take the cancer. Now, that doesn't mean I would do it (I don't know), and I don't know that I would expect anyone else to do it.

Back to the original topic. I've known very vocal veg*ns who have gone back to eating animals.

I think there are many reasons why people do it. There are also people who go from being very politically conservative to being very politically liberal, and vice versa, and people who change religious beliefs at the drop of a hat, so some of it has to do with basic personality/temperament.

 

[thefadedone]

I can understand people reverting back to eating meat for health reasons, but I don't understand the long term vegetarians that go back when they originally went veg for ethical reasons. It doesn't make sense to me. How can you free yourself from contributing to the murder of animals only to go back to it? How can you go back to that disconnect? How does your body not reject the flesh of another animal? How does meat eating not gross ex veg*ns the **** out? How do the images of factory farms and slaughterhouses not haunt them when they revert back?

 

[peacefulveglady]

This is what happened to me the last few years, because the last few years had been very trying and stressful for me, a lot has been happening so, as I was studying to become more involved with animal rights and veg living, I was doing it with a slow paced and still, My hope in 2014 will be the year I will make major changes so I can improve this, I am already considering going dairy free after the holidays and I am going to work on veg friendly recipes after we move to our new location , the kitchen is little bit bigger and more better for me to work, however I was told little bit and little baby steps counts on the way…

 

[nigel1]

Do you have pernicious anemia? Omnis who have that still need B12 injections. I hope you're getting your levels checked regularly.

No. I get almost everything checked! That was one of the first things checked for.

 

[Amy SF]

My sister used to be a hard core vegetarian. She would happily eat strictly vegetarian meals while telling us that she didn't eat anything that had a face, or a mother. But she was uninformed, or misinformed about protein. She's a little obsessed with protein. She eventually decided to start eating fish again (while calling herself a pescetarian, at least) because she said she "felt weak". She also insists that fish is considered a "lighter" meat and was acceptable for consumption in certain circumstances. I tell her that fish have a face, and a mother, and is still an animal, what changed? She said she felt better eating fish. I don't confront her about it, because I want to have a relationship with her. She was never a vegan and willingly wears leather also. There was also a period after she started eating fish again that my mother assumed I would, too, because it "made sense" and I love my sister and would want to emulate her. It was really annoying. Fortunately my mother hasn't brought it up in a couple of years. Unfortunately, my sister is still obsessed with protein, and thinks that I don't get enough. She also warns me not to consume too much soy because it's bad for me, but can't tell me exactly how it's bad for me.

She eventually had to cut back on her fish consumption when testing revealed she had very high levels of mercury in her system.

 

[nigel1]

Yes, you mean "strict vegetarian who ate a vegan diet".

Thanks. I have it on a Post-it stuck to my monitor now.

 

[Envy]

Another reason could be that veg**nism can be perceived as being very restricting.

 

[Blobbenstein]

maybe money. Some veg*ns may have enough money to buy nice veg foods in stores and online, some may not and be in a part of the world where the shops don't have much choice.

 

[Danielle]

That's true. Vegan alternatives are like mac computers - over priced And if more people bought them, they'd probably be cheaper.