Should Men Wear Make-up?

[mlp]

The text that I accented really strikes a chord with me. I am annoyed with myself because I place so much of "who I am" on how I look. I don't mean to get so personal, but it's difficult when you are one of the ones who isn't necessarily "pretty". And I'm not talking about a skewed sense of self image. When makeup can help accent 1-2 positive features that you may have, so that even though you may not be pretty, you can look and feel somewhat cute or attractive, it's hard to give that up. And it gets harder the older I get. Especially when society is throwing all kinds of beautiful people and expectations at us at every turn. I don't know about anyone else, but I've been on earth for a while and it is very apparent to me that, outside of family and really close friends, we are judged by our appearance. And that is sad. Very, very sad. Anyway, not sure if I went way off topic as I did not read the entire thread.

No, you're not off topic at all.

I'm plain. I have one good facial feature - my eyes - so there's a strong incentive for me to accentuate them, and I got good at doing so, using eye shadow instead of liner, and making it look very natural, much like they makeup actors to look as though they're not wearing makeup, when they want them to look "natural."

 

[Amy SF]

You are lucky, my mother has always bothered me about makeup. In a way it is why I resist wearing it except for special occasions. It is not because of a dislike for makeup or a disbelief in it, I just dont really want to wear it that often, and I find it bothersome that she has an opinion on it. I wish she would not comment at all on how much makeup I am or am not wearing and it makes me rebellious.

I guess the number one reason I dont wear it is appearance laziness, it has nothing to do with politics, I am kind of a jeans and tshirt sort of person during the day and I just brush my hair and dont do anything with it, i dont even dry it after washing.

This is my experience exactly. My mother has always been obsessed with my appearance and has always been after me to look the way she thinks I should look, with makeup on and certain haircuts and specific types of clothing. I'm not the only person she's harassed about it, but I think I've gotten the brunt of it. Since I don't like wearing makeup, this has resulted in numerous personality clashes between the two of us. She's backed off more or less in the last few years, but I still carry around a lot of resentment of how she's treated me my entire life.

 

[mlp]

This is my experience exactly. My mother has always been obsessed with my appearance and has always been after me to look the way she thinks I should look, with makeup on and certain haircuts and specific types of clothing. I'm not the only person she's harassed about it, but I think I've gotten the brunt of it. Since I don't like wearing makeup, this has resulted in numerous personality clashes between the two of us. She's backed off more or less in the last few years, but I still carry around a lot of resentment of how she's treated me my entire life.

Mother/daughter relationships can be so fraught, more so than father/son relationships, because in addition to all of the other potential parent/child crap, the whole appearance thing is layered on.

On my weekend visits to my mother, I'd drive up on Friday evenings. She would always have cooked and baked a number of things. I remember one Friday night when I arrived after 10 p.m. She had baked five different cakes, and while she was simultaneously lecturing me about putting on weight ("I had a much better figure than you do when I was your age!"), she was complaining that I no longer liked her food because I wasn't eating a piece from each of the five cakes.

 

[Ansciess]

I think the communication problem here is that it somehow looks like "gender policing" to have a view of make-up that is even a little bit critical from a feminist perspective (even if one wears it themselves!). I don't agree with that interpretation. There may, somewhere, be some people who look down on women for wearing make-up, but I haven't seen that sentiment from anyone here, so I don't see that that's the argument here.

The author from the article I posted on the first page wears make-up, but puts it in a sociological context that says that there are some problematic things about the beauty industry for women. That there are women on this thread who don't even feel comfortable in their own skin without it tells me that there is an issue such that we are not at a point where it's all about free choice and creative expression, devoid from a sexist context.

 

[Second Summer]

MOD POST
A note from your poor admin: Some posts many pages back have been deleted, including an ad hominem attack and several off-topic posts. More clean-up may be necessary. Sorry that this comes quite late now.

 

[Calliegirl]

That there are women on this thread who don't even feel comfortable in their own skin without it tells me that there is an issue such that we are not at a point where it's all about free choice and creative expression, devoid from a sexist context.

I wear mascara a lot of the time because I like how it looks. I wear it even on days there is zero chance of anyone seeing me, and sometimes don't wear any on days I go out in public. It is all about free choice, I choose to wear it when the mood strikes. I am very comfortable with the way I look (with or without makeup), even more so than when I was young and didn't have graying hair, sagging body parts, wrinkles and splotchy skin. I have no problem skinny dipping, if others don't want to see my less than modelesque body, they can look in another direction.

 

[Freesia]

This is my experience exactly. My mother has always been obsessed with my appearance and has always been after me to look the way she thinks I should look, with makeup on and certain haircuts and specific types of clothing. I'm not the only person she's harassed about it, but I think I've gotten the brunt of it. Since I don't like wearing makeup, this has resulted in numerous personality clashes between the two of us. She's backed off more or less in the last few years, but I still carry around a lot of resentment of how she's treated me my entire life.

Yes, this is similar to my experience. My mother has quite the thing about appearances. I am just kind of casual and untidy though and she has a difficult time understanding why I dont like to spend a lot of energy maintaining things, I am more into mental things so I tend to forget about the outside world, including my own body.

 

[Amy SF]

Freesia and I are two mental, casual, untidy peas in a pod.

 

[Ansciess]

Well, I'm not saying that no one can wear it just because they enjoy it in the privacy of their complete isolation or whatever (which seems a little odd to me, and still seems tied to an internalized cultural idea of female beauty, but I accept it), but it is an issue when many members of only one gender have an issue with it such that it becomes an actual news story when some members don't wear it, and lot of members of that gender don't feel comfortable in their skin without it.

There's a difference between a class analysis and what the circumstances may be for a specific individual! A class analysis does not always describe you, or every member of that class. Like, just because as a class women earn less than men for the same jobs, doesn't mean that every individual woman does!

I've seen this idea come up when a middle-upper class young woman becomes a stripper "for the experience and self exploration" and then declares that it's not an exploitative industry, because it was a choice for her - and a liberating one! There's a denial that for the majority of women in the sex industry it isn't a choice between some other good job vs. selling sex. Not a perfect analogy, but I hope you understand what I'm getting at. Back to make-up, when someone doesn't even feel comfortable leaving the house without it (as has been expressed in this thread), that choice needs to be put in context.

I wear make-up, and it's a choice for me as much as for anyone. But I understand that I do it in a culture that has certain ideas of female beauty, and I must be in some way be influenced by my culture, so my choice happens in that context. If I were a man I'm virtually positive I wouldn't wear it, so that says something to me.

 

[mlp]

I think the photoshopped pictures of ultra skinny women in magazines is far more dangerous than the wearing of make-up.

It's bad either way when someone is doing it to meet some ridiculous beauty standard, but I'm more worried about the people starving themselves and having cosmetic surgery because of it.

Oh, I agree, just as it's more urgent that women have legal protection from being raped and/or beaten by their husbands than it is that they have legal protection from being paid less for the same job than equally qualified men.

But fortunately neither is an either/or choice, and both have to do with how society values women and how we value ourselves.

 

[FortyTwo]

I thought you guys were talking about a totally different kind of makeup, like Adam Lambert and whatnot. Thanks for getting me all worked up.

*quickly runs away before he can become actually involved in any important debate*

 

[Spang]

Saw this on Tumblr (paragraphing done by me):

i love lipstick.

i want to write an essay about the politics of lipstick. i like lipstick that’s deep, deep red. i like lipstick that’s purple, lipstick that’s black and dark for when i want to dress up my melancholy. i like sharing lipstick with sisters. and i laugh at boys that think i wear lipstick for them to notice, i laugh, lipstick is an art you can’t ever understand. from picking out a color, testing it on the inside of my wrist, pursing my lips during the application of it.

i like when i kiss a baby and leave lipstick on their cheek, when you hug someone and leave lipstick on their shirt, when it gets on your teeth and you use your tongue to get it off, when you sleep in lipstick and wake up with it on your pillow case.

in 1997 mama left for ethiopia to see her mama for the first time in 12 years. i was six and i cried the entire way home from the airport. and when we came home there on the kitchen table was the teacup mama had been drinking out of. at the bottom a sip of tea and black cardamom seeds. and there on the rim of the cup the lipstick imprint of my mama’s kiss.

 

[mlp]

You should start wearing it then, Spang.

 

[Spang]

You should start wearing it then, Spang.

Why?

 

[mlp]

Why?

There's such a strong tendency, on this thread and elsewhere, to take the position that wearing makeup is a choice an individual makes purely as an individual, that societal norms and expectations play no role in that decision.*

I can't think of a better way to test that than for you, all the men on VV, and the male SO's of the female members of VV, to wear bright red lipstick for the next several weeks. Lipstick is the most common and basic cosmetic, and a red one leaves no doubt that it's being worn.

It would make for a great social experiment about how independently made personal decisions about makeup really are.

*The same goes for the changing surnames upon marriage issue. No one's decision to change surname upon marriage has had anything to do with societal expectations - it's a mere mathematical accident that about 98% of American women take their husband's name upon marriage, while the number of men who change their name is so small as to be statistically insignificant.

 

[Spang]

There's such a strong tendency, on this thread and elsewhere, to take the position that wearing makeup is a choice an individual makes purely as an individual, that societal norms and expectations play no role in that decision.*

I can't think of a better way to test that than for you, all the men on VV, and the male SO's of the female members of VV, to wear bright red lipstick for the next several weeks. Lipstick is the most common and basic cosmetic, and a red one leaves no doubt that it's being worn.

It would make for a great social experiment about how independently made personal decisions about makeup really are.

If I choose to wear red lipstick, I will. And I'll let everyone know how it goes.

 

[mlp]

Well, it's a great way of expressing oneself, and it's temporary, unlike a tattoo, so I don't see why there aren't a whole lot more men using it.

 

[Ansciess]

What mlp said about the politics of it (as though the choice is made in a vaccuum). But also I really dislike the way that little piece was written - overly poetic (for my taste), sentimental, and with imagery that I find kind of irritating

i like when i kiss a baby and leave lipstick on their cheek, when you hug someone and leave lipstick on their shirt, when it gets on your teeth and you use your tongue to get it off

I know I'd hate to have someone leave lipstick on my shirt, and who wants to eat lipstick? I find that style of writing irritating no matter what the topic.

She also doesn't seem to think that "boys" can "ever understand" lipstick - so she certainly has a very gender-specific view of make-up - and when only one gender chooses to perform some act, that's kind of a heads-up that the choice is not taking place in some apolitical gender-neutral free zone of choice, no?

i laugh at boys that think i wear lipstick for them to notice, i laugh, lipstick is an art you can’t ever understand. from picking out a color, testing it on the inside of my wrist, pursing my lips during the application of it.

 

[mary1]

"Should"
hmm...I don't think there is a should or a should not for this. I believe men and women should do what they like so much as it doesn't hurt others. The "should" for me would be people "shouldn't" treat others poorly for doing what they like so much as they're not hurting anyone.

 

[Freesia]

I wish I had a glittery lipstick now.

I always ujse my hand or finger to get it off the rim of my mouth though so it doesnt go on the teeth. I have an overbite so very likely to get it on teeth.