NSFW THE TRUMPOCALYPSE

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FortyTwo said:
The continued insistence that third parties are ever going to accomplish anything barring a complete overhaul of the system (which, don't get me wrong, I think we're about to see something like that. But up until this point, definitely not) annoys me so much, especially after what happened with this election.

It's made even worse by the fact that every third party candidate this year was absolute garbage. You cannot tell me that Jill Stein would have made a good President. She'd be a better one than Clump but so would a literal inanimate pile of dung. And then there's Johnson, who I'm convinced doesn't know what taxes are.

If you're gonna protest vote, then fine. I mean, it's not fine, it's actually incredibly irresponsible, but it's your choice. At least call it what it is.
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He knows what taxes are. Theft. Taxation is theft. :D

Maybe some people voted for him as a protest vote but definitely not all. Even if there was no libertarian on the ballot I would not have voted for Trump or Clinton. Most Johnson supporters I know would not have voted for either one either.

It's Hillary's fault she lost. No one else's. Period.
 
He said it perfectly...

Jeremy Mitchell
November 10


I listened as they called my President a Muslim (as if it were a bad thing). I listened as they called him a monkey. I listened as they said he wasn't born here. I watched as they blocked every single path to progress that they could. I saw the pictures of him as Hitler. I listened as they openly said that they will oppose him at every turn. I watched as they did just that. I listened and I watched and I paid attention. Now, I'm being called on to be tolerant. To move forward. To "Get over it." To accept this...

I will not. I will do my part to make sure this great American mistake becomes the embarrassing footnote of our history that it deserves to be, as quickly as possible. I will do my part to limit the damage that this man can do to my country. I will vote. I will watch his every move and point out every single mistake and misdeed in a loud and proud voice. Do not call for my tolerance. I've tolerated all I can. Now it's their turn to tolerate ridicule. Be aware, make no mistake about it, every single thing that goes wrong in our country from this day forward is now Trump's fault just as much as they thought it was Obama's. I find it unreasonable for them to expect from me what they were entirely unwilling to give.
They will find no shelter here.
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Having a system where illegal immigrants are tolerated/accepted and ultimately given amnesty is not the best approach in my view. Such a system is what promoted the migrations across Europe, which caused disruption and hardship for the migrants themselves, and to a lesser extent legal residents of the countries. Such a system also creates a world in which sex trafficking is much easier, criminals offering passage to migrants in generals becomes more profitable, and those boats that sink in the mediterranean killing people also become more common. And perhaps in the US more people will die trying to cross deserts in the border area in summer. That is what happens in the Chile/Peru/Bolivia desert border area.

Also, rewarding illegal immigration is fundamentally unfair. If you apply to your local consulate/embassy for a visa/asylum but are rejected then hear of your friend illegally immigrating to the US and making a successful life there, you might feel a great sense of injustice.

So I am in favour of illegal immigrants being found and sent home, in general, and I think money should be spent on this. And I don't think there is anything fundamentally wrong with going to work places or maybe even knocking on doors or stopping people on the street and asking for documentation. Although this is debatable and is a grey area that needs to be done with tremendous care and courtesy especially as it becomes a danger of racial profiling.

I am not in favour of throwing out every illegal immigrant of course not, I think it depends on the case. If someone came to the US at the age of 3 and is now 25 then I think most people would agree that it wouldn't be fair to deport them. That being said, I don't think coming to the US as a child or baby or even being born there should make someone a citizen automatically either, in other words if a couple crosses the border and has a baby born the day after, inside the US, and then are caught a few months or a year later, then they should probably still all leave. But by the time the child has lived there a certain amount of years it becomes too cruel to deport them, and a better route would be allow them all to become legal somehow.

Of course this needs to be done in combination with an increase in immigrants being accepted via legal applications made from either their home country or a third country, and by having a system that doesn't drown people in paperwork. It also needs to be done in combination with more money spent on border police to make it harder for people to get in.

And with allowances made for people that genuinely were seeking persecution or fleeing from something terrible and had little choice. For example if someone was known to be a target for drug cartels in Mexico because they were a journalist that had published certain things, you might treat them more favourably if they took a quick, illegal route to the US.

Where illegal immigrants are caught and allowed to stay this should be done in such a way that they get a worse deal than people who applied legally in the first place, for example they have to pay a fine or triple the visa fee or a higher taxation or aren't allowed certain benefits for a a period of time. Otherwise, it's just not fair. And blanket amnesties from time to time is great news for the people making money from people trafficking.

Of course, the problem with a Trump administration, in my view, is not that they want to deport illegal immigrants (which is fair enough, they are breaking the law) but the fear that they will do it in a crass way, that they won't do it with due care for vulnerable illegal immigrants, and that this will (and yes, already has) spilled over into bad treatments of legal immigrants by Trump supporters.

But none of that changes my main arguments here.

Anyway, maybe I'm wrong, would be interested to hear what others think.

I do believe in open borders eventually, but I don't think we are there yet, but I think it should be an long-term goal.
 
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Spang said:
I don't think women (or men) who are pregnant enough to give birth the next day are hiking through the desert.
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Not impossible, though. The women in my family were generally working in the fields right up to the time they gave birth. Peasants are tough, because they have to be.
 
For Immediate Release
December 29, 2016
Statement by the President on Actions in Response to Russian Malicious Cyber Activity and Harassment
Today, I have ordered a number of actions in response to the Russian government’s aggressive harassment of U.S. officials and cyber operations aimed at the U.S. election. These actions follow repeated private and public warnings that we have issued to the Russian government, and are a necessary and appropriate response to efforts to harm U.S. interests in violation of established international norms of behavior.

All Americans should be alarmed by Russia’s actions. In October, my Administration publicized our assessment that Russia took actions intended to interfere with the U.S. election process. These data theft and disclosure activities could only have been directed by the highest levels of the Russian government. Moreover, our diplomats have experienced an unacceptable level of harassment in Moscow by Russian security services and police over the last year. Such activities have consequences. Today, I have ordered a number of actions in response...
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Statement by the President on Actions in Response to Russian Malicious Cyber Activity and Harassment


The Obama administration announced a round of sanctions against Moscow on Thursday over its alleged hacking into the Democratic National Committee's computers to influence this year’s presidential election.

US intelligence agencies—the CIA and FBI—have previously accused Russia of influencing November's election in order to help Donald Trump win the presidency, accusations Russian President Vladimir Putin has vehemently denied.

President Obama signed an executive order Thursday outlining the punishment for individuals and organizations they believe were involved in "tampering with, altering, or causing a misappropriation of information with the purpose or effect of interfering with or undermining election processes or institutions."

The sanctions will hit Russian individuals while closing two Russian compounds, one in New York and another in Maryland. Thirty-five Russian operatives and their families have been ordered to leave the country within the next 72 hours...
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White House sanctions Russia over election hacking
 
"History is repeating itself; the same tactics are being used by Hitler (identify a problem, finding a scapegoat target to blame, and stirring up people with a combination of fanaticism, false promises, and fear, and gathering the funding)," she wrote. "I only know I could never 'throw roses to Hitler.' And I certainly could never sing for him."
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Mormon Tabernacle Singer Quits Choir Over Trump Inauguration

“I know the goodness of your hearts. And your desire to go out there and show that we are politically neutral and share good will.” she wrote to her fellow choir members. “I also know, looking from the outside in, it will appear that Choir is endorsing tyranny and facism by singing for this man.”

“For me, this is a HUGELY moral issue,” she wrote, going on to say that she is very patriotic, and joined the choir to honor her father, who “hated tyranny and was extremely distraught over the holocaust.” She now fears history is repeating itself, writing, “Tyranny is now on our doorstep.”
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Mormon Tabernacle Choir Member Quits Instead of Singing at Trump Inauguration
 
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Feds take back mineral leases from Twin Metals

Unfortunately, this is only a temporary win for those of us fighting to keep the Federally protected Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness free from the effects of sulfide mining. The BWCA is a 2 million acre forest free from roads, buildings, motors, signs. It is a refuge for people and animals, and one of the few places left in the U.S. not privatized or destroyed by development. But slowly various businesses are eroding the boundaries of this awesome park. And you can bet Trump will support sulfide mining.

My partner and I have done six BWCA canoe camping trips so far, and he has done two solo canoe camping trips. It is something we plan and look forward to for months in advance. It is a rewarding experience, as close to wilderness as I will ever get. It is sad that this may all be gone in another ten or twenty years.
 
Spang said:
I don't think women (or men) who are pregnant enough to give birth the next day are hiking through the desert.
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My friend works at a south Texas hospital. Every day there are a group of very pregnant immigrants in the parking lot waiting for their water to break, for the hospital has to deliver the baby if the membranes have ruptured.

There are food trucks out there, and the nurses often go out with manual blood pressure cuffs and questions, to ensure that no one is dehydrated or has immediate issues. And so these women are delivered with no medical records or information about the pregnancy. The babies are US citizens, but that's not really the long-term issue. The income disparity and desperation to cause gravid women to hang out in a boiling hot parking lot are.
 
I doubt it happens very often, but it can't be good to create an incentive for pregnant mothers to make a danegerous border crossing (to get US citizenship for their kids). As far as I understand it, if you are born in the US, even to two illegal parents, you are a citizen. But I wonder, what would happen in practice if parents were caught an hour after giving birth and two hours after crossing the border, would they all get to stay?

Conversely, as far as I understand it, if you are born outside you are still illegal even if you entered the country as a baby and are now 15 years old. But, in practice, are such families ever thrown out? I think the people in the second case should have a greater right to stay, although if I understand correctly, that is not the law.

Of course, these are extreme cases but understanding the extremes is helpful to providing a framework to understanding other situations.

These are the best articles I could find in 5 minutes
Levin: 'Completely False' That Children Born to Illegals Have Constitutional Right to Citizenship
Speak Outs - Should birthright citizenship be denied for U.S.-born children of illegal immigrants?
Although the first one does seem to contradict what I'm saying.
 
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