NSFW THE TRUMPOCALYPSE

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Mischief said:
So is the entire Spanish language part of the site.
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I am watching a "news" conference with the new press secretary. Holy f*ck, I cannot believe the BS coming out of this man's mouth. It's astounding. My head is going to explode.
 
Someone showed me a FB post from some woman who loves DT. And yeah, basically she is criticizing the women for marching. A woman is criticizing women for doing a peaceful march. There's that internal misogyny we were talking about earlier. Very sad.
 
Katrina said:
Someone showed me a FB post from some woman who loves DT. And yeah, basically she is criticizing the women for marching. A woman is criticizing women for doing a peaceful march. There's that internal misogyny we were talking about earlier. Very sad.
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I got into an argument with another woman the other day who basically considered the Orange Menace's behavior toward women as "just dude stuff." My jaw dropped. Basically, she didn't think his sexual assault of women, and his bragging about it, was a "big deal." I was astounded, dumbfounded, you name it. She is the same kind of person who buys into the patriarchal BS that blames women for rape. I can't believe there are women who think this way. It's so very sad how little they value themselves.
 
PTree15 said:
I am watching a "news" conference with the new press secretary. Holy f*ck, I cannot believe the BS coming out of this man's mouth. It's astounding. My head is going to explode.
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A scary quote from this idiot: I think sometimes we can disagree with the facts.
REALLY??????? How is that possible? This is scary on so many levels.
 
PTree15 said:
I got into an argument with another woman the other day who basically considered the Orange Menace's behavior toward women as "just dude stuff." My jaw dropped. Basically, she didn't think his sexual assault of women, and his bragging about it, was a "big deal." I was astounded, dumbfounded, you name it. She is the same kind of person who buys into the patriarchal BS that blames women for rape. I can't believe there are women who think this way. It's so very sad how little they value themselves.
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You seem like the most intelligent person on this forum, why do you think women voted Republican/Trump this time?

ETA: sorry I didn't mean to question you. I just find your views interesting.
 
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Moll Flanders said:
You seem like the most intelligent person on this forum, why do you think women voted Republican/Trump this time?

ETA: sorry I didn't mean to question you. I just find your views interesting.
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LOL, no problem. And thank you for such kind words. :)
I'm still trying to figure this out. I think as a country some of us got very complacent about so many things, mostly the assumption that there were enough people who would not let this man get elected just because of his outrageous character and his views/treatment of women. There are sadly so many women who don't have the confidence to stand up for themselves, who've been assaulted by men and fear speaking out, who believe the patriarchal narrative that women are weaker/not equal and need men to protect them. And some women just don't like to rock the boat out of fear. I can't tell you how many times other women have suggested that I "tone it down," "be more ladylike," "don't be so outspoken because it hurts you" "Dress more feminine, "Wear some makeup." If I were male, all of these "issues" would be considered attributes. Aggressiveness in women is viewed so differently from aggressiveness in men. For men, they are go-getters, tough, confident, brash. For women, it's being a "*****" a "complainer" "pushy." And these views are shared by some women about other women. That's what bothers me so much. I am not some piece of property to be paraded around by a man. I'm not an appendage or a sex toy, existing only to serve men. Don't get me wrong, I love men, but I am an individual with my own mind and desires. But I think there are many women in my country who would view me with disdain, that I should "know my place" and be thankful if some man were to "complete me."

There is also a huge economic factor that I think a lot of people overlooked. There are indeed regions of the country where jobs and communities have disappeared because of technological evolution such as automation. I've seen it in my own field. Newspapers, the print model anyway, are dying left and right because it's simply cheaper to produce news without the cost of newsprint, delivery, machinery to print, etc. These regions and industries haven't recovered economically and they haven't found a way to bounce back. The Orange Menace tapped into these disenfranchised groups. His slogan of make America great again spoke to them. I've been listening to interviews of people from these regions who voted for the OM, and they all cite jobs as the main reason. I can't understand how they think their coal jobs or manufacturing jobs will rebound. That horse is out of the barn. Those jobs aren't coming back for so many reasons. Globalization is a huge factor. Businesses will do whatever they can to keep costs down, even if that means putting tons of people out of work. If they can get their goods and services produced more cheaply, they will, regardless of where those jobs go. It's all about the Benjamins, sadly.

I also think that slogan spoke to people who fear anyone who is different from them. They want a return to Rockwellian America, sometimes perceived as pretty much white America of the 1950s. Conformity and oppression was king and men ruled and women stayed home to raise the children and keep house. I remember my (biological) father deriding my mother for wanting to read the newspaper, questioning why she needs to know what's going on because she had plenty do around the house, what with cooking, cleaning and taking care of us kids. The inherent patriarchal narrative is so entrenched. It's almost like the animal food industry. It's so ingrained that it's not questioned. Her own mother wouldn't pay for her to go to college for teaching because "why would you need to do that? Just get married and have kids; that's what you're supposed to do."

All of this also got worse after 9/11. I think since the 80s there has been a concerted effort to squelch debate of any kind. When I was a kid, thoughtful debate, thinking for yourself, questioning authority were all encouraged. It's now perceived as unpatriotic to engage in anything that criticizes the government. Nationalism is all the rage, and some of white America sees immigrants as taking their jobs away, taking away their livelihood, ruining their neighborhoods, taking their resources. They abhor programs that use tax dollars to help people because they feel like they are paying for laziness and scam artists just abusing the system. I have heard it from own family members. "Why should I have to pay for people who just want to suck the system dry?" It's depressing. They don't seem to want to hear about all of the people these programs have helped.

I have never understood how people could vote for a lot of GOP candidates because some of them believe your circumstances are what you make them. While that is true to some extent, sometimes misfortune has nothing to do with choices; **** happens. But I've always felt like the GOP has no use for anyone who doesn't pull themselves up by their bootstraps. Sometimes, people need a helping hand to do that. Not everyone comes from the same circumstances and has the same opportunities to do that. I think a lot of women, even if they believed the OM was flawed, were willing to overlook it all because they just want to be able to feed their kids and have a nice place to live.

There is so much at play, though, so much manipulation by those in power, and not everyone is able to see through that, or wants to for that matter. They just want to be comfortable. Change is difficult and some people aren't amenable to it.

I'm not sure I've articulated all of this very well, but it's just a little of what has been going through my mind as I try to figure out why this happened.
 
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All 11 of the Republicans approved Tillerson. My opinion of the Republican party just went even lower. I get that they are just rubber stamping their President's decision but come on, there has to be some place you draw the line.
 
Jamie in Chile said:
All 11 of the Republicans approved Tillerson. My opinion of the Republican party just went even lower. I get that they are just rubber stamping their President's decision but come on, there has to be some place you draw the line.
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Yeah, they're not going to draw a line.
 
I think we had an earlier version of this video some time ago, take a look at it.

I think it illustrates people voting for Trump against their own best interests up to some point.


I think this behaviour is even a "valid philosophy" ... Delusionalism: What is Delusionalism?...
 
PTree15 said:
LOL, no problem. And thank you for such kind words. :)
I'm still trying to figure this out. I think as a country some of us got very complacent about so many things, mostly the assumption that there were enough people who would not let this man get elected just because of his outrageous character and his views/treatment of women. There are sadly so many women who don't have the confidence to stand up for themselves, who've been assaulted by men and fear speaking out, who believe the patriarchal narrative that women are weaker/not equal and need men to protect them. And some women just don't like to rock the boat out of fear. I can't tell you how many times other women have suggested that I "tone it down," "be more ladylike," "don't be so outspoken because it hurts you" "Dress more feminine, "Wear some makeup." If I were male, all of these "issues" would be considered attributes. Aggressiveness in women is viewed so differently from aggressiveness in men. For men, they are go-getters, tough, confident, brash. For women, it's being a "*****" a "complainer" "pushy." And these views are shared by some women about other women. That's what bothers me so much. I am not some piece of property to be paraded around by a man. I'm not an appendage or a sex toy, existing only to serve men. Don't get me wrong, I love men, but I am an individual with my own mind and desires. But I think there are many women in my country who would view me with disdain, that I should "know my place" and be thankful if some man were to "complete me."

There is also a huge economic factor that I think a lot of people overlooked. There are indeed regions of the country where jobs and communities have disappeared because of technological evolution such as automation. I've seen it in my own field. Newspapers, the print model anyway, are dying left and right because it's simply cheaper to produce news without the cost of newsprint, delivery, machinery to print, etc. These regions and industries haven't recovered economically and they haven't found a way to bounce back. The Orange Menace tapped into this disenfranchised groups. His slogan of make America great again spoke to them. I've been listening to interviews of people from these regions who voted for the OM, and they all cite jobs as the main reason. I can't understand how they think their coal jobs or manufacturing jobs will rebound. That horse is out of the barn. Those jobs aren't coming back for so many reasons. Globalization is a huge factor. Businesses will do whatever they can to keep costs down, even if that means putting tons of people out of work. If they can get their goods and services produced more cheaply, they will, regardless of where those jobs go. It's all about the Benjamins, sadly.

I also think that slogan spoke to people who fear anyone who is different from them. They want a return to Rockwellian America, sometimes perceived as pretty much white America of the 1950s. Conformity and oppression was king and men ruled and women stayed home to raise the children and keep house. I remember my (biological) father deriding my mother for wanting to read the newspaper, questioning why she needs to know what's going on because she had plenty do around the house, what with cooking, cleaning and taking care of us kids. The inherent patriarchal narrative is so entrenched. It's almost like the animal food industry. It's so ingrained that it's not questioned. Her own mother wouldn't pay for her to go to college for teaching because "why would you need to do that? Just get married and have kids; that's what you're supposed to do."

All of this also got worse after 9/11. I think since the 80s there has been a concerted effort to squelch debate of any kind. When I was a kid, thoughtful debate, thinking for yourself, questioning authority were all encouraged. It's now perceived as unpatriotic to engage in anything that criticizes the government. Nationalism is all the rage, and some of white America sees immigrants as taking their jobs away, taking away their livelihood, ruining their neighborhoods, taking their resources. They abhor programs that use tax dollars to help people because they feel like they are paying for laziness and scam artists just abusing the system. I have heard it from own family members. "Why should I have to pay for people who just want to suck the system dry?" It's depressing. They don't seem to want to hear about all of the people these programs have helped.

I have never understood how people could vote for a lot of GOP candidates because some of them believe your circumstances are what you make them. While that is true to some extent, sometimes misfortune has nothing to do with choices; **** happens. But I've always felt like the GOP has no use for anyone who doesn't pull themselves up by their bootstraps. Sometimes, people need a helping hand to do that. Not everyone comes from the same circumstances and has the same opportunities to do that. I think a lot of women, even if they believed the OM was flawed, were willing to overlook it all because they just want to be able to feed their kids and have a nice place to live.

There is so much at play, though, so much manipulation by those in power, and not everyone is able to see through that, or wants to for that matter. They just want to be comfortable. Change is difficult and some people aren't amenable to it.

I'm not sure I've articulated all of this very well, but it's just a little of what has been going through my mind as I try to figure out why this happened.
Click to expand...

All of this, plus:

I've spent most of my life trying to figure out why so many women are complicit in "keeping women in their place." There's no other group which has remained complicit like this for generation upon generation. And women comprise 50+ percent of the population!

Yeah, at one point we were simply out-muscled, but that hasn't been the case since guns came along.

Part of it's socialization, sure, but some of it has to be in our genes.

More than half of white women voted for DT. That is simply mind boggling.
 
This is the post on FB from Christy that was against the women's march:

"I am not a "disgrace to women" because I don't support the women's march. I do not feel I am a "second class citizen" because I am a woman. I do not feel my voice is "not heard" because I am a woman. I do not feel I am not provided opportunities in this life or in America because I am a woman. I do not feel that I "don't have control of my body or choices" because I am a woman. I do not feel like I am " not respected or undermined" because I am a woman.
I AM a woman.
I can make my own choices.
I can speak and be heard.
I can VOTE.
I can work if I want.
I control my body.
I can defend myself.
I can defend my family.
There is nothing stopping me to do anything in this world but MYSELF.
I do not blame my circumstances or problems on anything other than my own choices or even that sometimes in life, we don't always get what we want. I take responsibility for myself.
I am a mother, a daughter, a wife, a sister, a friend. I am not held back in life but only by the walls I choose to not go over which is a personal choice.
Quit blaming.
Take responsibility.
If you want to speak, do so. But do not expect for me, a woman, to take you seriously wearing a pink va-jay-jay hat on your head and screaming profanities and bashing men.
If you have beliefs, and speak to me in a kind manner, I will listen. But do not expect for me to change my beliefs to suit yours. Respect goes both ways.
If you want to impress me, especially in regards to women, then speak on the real injustices and tragedies that affect women in foreign countries that do not that the opportunity or means to have their voices heard.
Saudi Arabia, women can't drive, no rights and must always be covered.
China and India, infantcide of baby girls.
Afghanistan, unequal education rights.
Democratic Republic of Congo, where rapes are brutal and women are left to die, or HIV infected and left to care for children alone.
Mali, where women can not escape the torture of genital mutilation.
Pakistan, in tribal areas where women are gang raped to pay for men's crime.
Guatemala, the impoverished female underclass of Guatemala faces domestic violence, rape and the second-highest rate of HIV/AIDS after sub-Saharan Africa. An epidemic of gruesome unsolved murders has left hundreds of women dead, some of their bodies left with hate messages.
And that's just a few examples.
So when women get together in AMERICA and whine they don't have equal rights and march in their clean clothes, after eating a hearty breakfast, and it's like a vacation away that they have paid for to get there...
This WOMAN does not support it.

-Liz Arnet.

#notmymarch"
 
Well, by that test, everyone who's "whining" that they've been left behind economically should STFU, since they still have it many times better than a poor person in sub-Saharan Africa.

ETA: That was in response to the Christy post.
 
Mischief said:
All of this, plus:

I've spent most of my life trying to figure out why so many women are complicit in "keeping women in their place." There's no other group which has remained complicit like this for generation upon generation. And women comprise 50+ percent of the population!

Yeah, at one point we were simply out-muscled, but that hasn't been the case since guns came along.

Part of it's socialization, sure, but some of it has to be in our genes.

More than half of white women voted for DT. That is simply mind boggling.
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Yep, it's definitely mind boggling. I, too, have been trying to figure this out for years. Why would anyone vote for someone who does not have his or her interests at heart? I don't understand how people couldn't see this. RE genes: I'm so glad I apparently don't have those genes!
 
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This Christy reminds me of the women of a century ago who didn't support giving the vote to women because, they said, women had enough to do without having to worry about politics, too. Best leave complicated, messy politics to men.

Or the women who didn't support the modern feminist movement of the 1960's-1970's because, they said, they didn't feel oppressed and thought the women's libbers were just being silly.
 
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