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ledboots said:
Felons are not allowed to purchase guns.
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I never said felons. I said violent criminals, like gang members who shoot at each other and kill innocent people, often children, who get caught in the middle of it.

1-year-old fatally shot in crib as bullets fly in Compton, Calif.

Who are the people doing the shooting, should they be buying and using guns? Wouldn't gun control keep guns away from someone who would just walk up to a house and start shooting? It's so easy to get guns these days that even blind people are allowed to own and use guns.
 
outlawing guns wouldn't just mean stopping the selling of them, it would, or should mean that when stopped by the police, anyone carrying a gun without the authority to carry one, gets a prison sentence, similarly with knives in the UK. With gun amnesties, wouldn't this gradually remove guns from society?
 
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Blobbenstein said:
outlawing guns wouldn't just mean stopping the selling of them, it would, or should mean that when stopped by the police, anyone carrying a gun without the authority to carry one, gets a prison sentence, similarly with knives in the UK. With gun amnesties, wouldn't this gradually remove guns from society?
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In the US, you have to have a permit to carry a gun (in most states). This involves background checks and gun safety courses, etc. If you don't have a permit and are caught, or use the gun, you are criminally charged.

There are about 300 million guns in the US.
 
ledboots said:
In the US, you have to have a permit to carry a gun (in most states). This involves background checks and gun safety courses, etc. If you don't have a permit and are caught, or use the gun, you are criminally charged.

There are about 300 million guns in the US.
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There's a difference between carrying and owning a gun. In this state, you do not need to have a permit to own a gun, you just need a concealed carry permit if you're going to carry a concealed weapon. IOW, if you keep your gun on your property, you don't need a permit. You also don't need to pass a background check if you buy at a gun fair or from someone who isn't a registered gun dealer.

In the state in which I used to live, you needed a permit in order to own a gun, but getting one didn't involve a background check - it just put you on record as owning at least one firearm.

Neither of these states requires a gun safety course, either to own a gun or to carry one in public places.

Within a couple of months of concealed carry becoming legal here, someone I knew was shot to death going home from work because another driver got mad at him during the rush hour crawl. The killer had all o his required paperwork. That didn't stop him from getting out of his vehicle, walking over to my acquaintance's car while they were stopped in rush hour traffic, and putting a bullet in his head.

The kind of idiots who think it's appropriate (and macho) to walk/drive around with a gun are exactly the kind of people who shouldn't be allowed near a gun.
 
Plus, as far as I know, there is also the "open carry" possibility that allows you to carry around a shotgun or assault rifle in many US states if you feel threatened (e.g. by muslims going to a place of worship or similar). Also, with the "stand your ground" laws, you only need to feel threatened to have a legal ground to shoot somebody else.

I wonder what my colleagues would say if I brought an assault rifle to my business meetings citing my constitutional rights :eek:. And if they complained and barred me from doing so I could likely still sue my company or at least stage a boycott for infringement on my personal rights :D.

In many other countries in Europe the idea is that you should not need to carry a weapon with you, as the police would typically be able to take care of violent crime. (I also typically rely more on the idea that not every idiot out there would be carrying a weapon and police officers would be keeping the peace, rather than that I would also carry a six-shooter at my hip, and practice regularly to be able to draw faster than the "bad" guys ... that "frontier" spirit as was suitable in 1800:D in some parts of the world).

So "concealed carry" permits would be limited to people who are believed to truly need a weapon, e.g. jewellers carrying valuable items with them, licensed private detectives and bodyguards, or people who are threatened by criminals.

Where I live now, in Malaysia, the law is even more simple. Carrying a gun illegally carries a mandatory death sentence like drug trafficking AFAIK, so criminals would rather carry machetes or other dangerous things that are not guns. I must say that this makes me feel safer, because while you can still kill or grievously hurt somebody with a machete or knife, it is not as easy as with a firearm.
 
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Andy_T said:
Plus, as far as I know, there is also the "open carry" possibility that allows you to carry around a shotgun or assault rifle in many US states if you feel threatened (e.g. by muslims going to a place of worship or similar). Also, with the "stand your ground" laws, you only need to feel threatened to have a legal ground to shoot somebody else.

I wonder what my colleagues would say if I brought an assault rifle to my business meetings citing my constitutional rights :eek:. And if they complained and barred me from doing so I could likely still sue my company or at least stage a boycott for infringement on my personal rights :D.

In many other countries in Europe the idea is that you should not need to carry a weapon with you, as the police would typically be able to take care of violent crime. (I also typically rely more on the idea that not every idiot out there would be carrying a weapon and police officers would be keeping the peace, rather than that I would also carry a six-shooter at my hip, and practice regularly to be able to draw faster than the "bad" guys ... that "frontier" spirit as was suitable in 1800:D in some parts of the world).

So "concealed carry" permits would be limited to people who are believed to truly need a weapon, e.g. jewellers carrying valuable items with them, licensed private detectives and bodyguards, or people who are threatened by criminals.

Where I live now, in Malaysia, the law is even more simple. Carrying a gun illegally carries a mandatory death sentence like drug trafficking AFAIK, so criminals would rather carry machetes or other dangerous things that are not guns. I must say that this makes me feel safer, because while you can still kill or grievously hurt somebody with a machete or knife, it is not as easy as with a firearm.
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Well you certainly are interested in America's laws. ;) Most places of work that are not police stations or the like forbid bringing weapons to work.

That "threatened by Muslims going to a place of worship" comment is nothing I have heard of in the US. Our Constitution declares freedom of religion as well as the right to bear arms, for free speech, etc. There are no restrictions on mosques, or head scarf wearing, etc.

With freedoms come risks.

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -Benjamin Franklin
 
ledboots said:
No one was shooting in fear at people going to Mosque, which is what you said in your post.
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No, I was saying that there are people standing in front of mosques with assault rifles defending their right to openly carry shotguns and assault rifles.

Actually, you don't have to feel threatened to do that, I understand.

Luckily there have not been any incidents.
 
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Andy_T said:
No, I was saying that there are people standing in front of mosques with assault rifles defending their right to openly carry shotguns and assault rifles.

Actually, you don't have to feel threatened to do that, I understand.
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Although I am sure that there are few things that would make me feel more threatened than to have a bunch of people with assault rifles standing in front of a place I wanted to frequent, especially people with assault rifles who just happened to intensely dislike a group of which I happened to be a member.

That, of course, is the whole reason these gun totin' idiots do this sort of thing - how can one more effectively bully people without risk to oneself, than to swagger around carrying assault rifles?! That's the kind of mentality that you are so vigorously defending, Ledboots.


And in other news: Kalamazoo victims were car shopping, enjoying night out - CNN.com
 
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