Why Don't Some People Like Charity?

[Forster]

Thank you. This is what I'm going through right now. I'm unemployed and have very little money left. I've been advised to apply for unemployment insurance and food stamps. I hate the idea of needing food stamps, but if they allow me to eat...

Most people don't feel guilty about drawing social security because they "paid" into it. You've worked, you've paid your taxes, you ought not feel guilty about drawing unemployment insurance, you wouldn't be eligible for UI if you hadn't worked. Ditto for other assistance you might need, that's why we pay taxes, heck, the stabilizing effect on our economy is worth it enough for these programs to exist.

 

[Wolfie]

Are will STILL repeating the welfare queen myth? :eyeroll:

You're funny.

Come visit me and I can introduce you to several.

 

[Wolfie]

Amy, I agree, apply now. Some of the red tape can take forever.

 

[Forster]

You're funny.

Come visit me and I can introduce you to several.

I don't think a government (or charity for that matter) can create a program to help people where a percentage of the populace is not going to end up abusing it, IMO it will always happen. That being said, despite being livid about abuse, I understand that the programs do help people, many of who found themselves in circumstances beyond their control. I'm not willing to throw the baby out with the bathwater at this point.

 

[Wolfie]

I never said throw the programs out. A few changes could weed out a lot of the abuse. Heck the free food program at the local animal shelter has more rules in place than the state does for its programs.

 

[Forster]

I never said throw the programs out. A few changes could weed out a lot of the abuse. Heck the free food program at the local animal shelter has more rules in place than the state does for its programs.

My bad, I can see how you read it that way, I didn't think nor try to imply that was your position at least intentionally. It was more commentary about a large segment of our society that thinks all such things ought to be done away with (none of who I think are here). I admit there are times when I'm at least sympathetic towards that sentiment.

 

[peacefulveglady]

I just seen this but most people here in the south especially where I am at is that they go by the Bible that says if your don't work you should not get help. They don't understand that passage in the Bible meant something else.
I think people that refuses Charity are feeling ashamed and hurt and embarrassed that they have to go ask someone for help. I am too a point that I am tired of asking people for help I don't want to sound like I am begging but, there are churches in the area that serves meals, its nothing I would want to eat but, at least it something to eat.

 

[Spang]

Accepting charity can be humiliating. Solidarity and mutual aid are much better. Also, there's the whole "White Savior Complex" that really needs to go the way of the dinosaur.

 

[Ann Chovie]

I never said throw the programs out. A few changes could weed out a lot of the abuse. Heck the free food program at the local animal shelter has more rules in place than the state does for its programs.

The local food bank my charity links into to access urgent food supplies for clients has a strict and unyielding criteria for who can claim parcels and for how long.Its a much harsher check than those imposed by state benefits and one that withdraws help without mercy when the deadline is reached whether people have alternative food sources or not.


A member of staff expressed his regret that this was the case and told me it had it had not always been so. He told me that it is limited to three days supplies partly because unlimited access to the service leads to dependency and lack of motivation to find work ( questionable) but also when it started up it was besieged by fraudulent claimants turning up day after day claiming large allowances of food for " bogus" families.

My experience as a benefit worker is that the introduction of any new benefit is usually accompanied by the introduction of a new scam to abuse that benefit. The enduring problem with benefits is how to distinguish the genuine needy from the scheming greedy.

The only way to do this is to presume all guilty from the outset. The needy will be left shamed and humiliated by the experience of protesting and proving their innocence while the greedy weave and wind through the process untouched.

 

[Katrina]

Nobody likes to feel pitied, especially for not having something in a society that puts so much stress on having things.

 

[nigel1]

Just saw this. AmySF, I don't understand how you get to "A lot of these people live in the conservative American South". How much is "a lot" to you and where do all the others live? Really? Where do you get your facts? Why do you enjoy talking about the US South so much?

I've spent about half of my life in southern and mid-atlantic states and the other half on the west coast and have to say that I have no idea where you get your characterizations of Southerners from other than maybe popular television and other works of fiction.

 

[sequoia]

You people whining about the "entitlement mentality" that people today have make me sick.

YOUR generation fucked everything up for US. We are the ones with crippling student loan debt. We are the ones who are working at McDonalds even though we have master's degrees. YOUR GENERATION TANKED THE ECONOMY BY VOTING FOR INEPT ASSHOLES, NOT OURS. YOUR GENERATION WAS ACTUALLY ABLE TO SURVIVE ON MINIMUM WAGE. YOUR GENERATION COULD PAY FOR COLLEGE WITH SUMMER JOBS.

And now you ******* dare to whine about how my generation is entitled? You fucks had it easy.

 

[sequoia]

Also, food, clothing, and shelter are basic human needs and if you think people who demand them are entitled you're a terrible person.

 

[Wolfie]

You don't know much about my generation then. I'm not living the high life looking down on others. I am far, far from well off. And I have NEVER said that anyone should go without food, shelter, health care or other basics. But I do get tired of going to the store and buying what I can afford after a tax bill or car repair or vet bill and seeing those on assistance buying things most of us working stiffs can't afford. All while carrying a Coach purse and having manicured nails. No, that's not all people on assistance but there are a lot who abuse the system, at least in my neck of the woods. I know families with more than 1 generation on assistance who just plain do not work. Then you've got the single mom with 2 kids working full time and she barely gets enough food stamps to eat. Or in my case, where I lost a job through no fault of my own and there was zero help since I hadn't reproduced. That's the way it works in my state. If you are disabled you can get some help and if you pop out kids like an unspayed feral cat you can get loads of help. With food, medical, rent, school, etc. Anyone else can starve I guess. I have paid in my entire working life yet it wasn't there when I needed it. The entire system needs to be revamped. If thinking that makes me a terrible person, so be it.

 

[das_nut]

You don't know much about my generation then. I'm not living the high life looking down on others. I am far, far from well off. And I have NEVER said that anyone should go without food, shelter, health care or other basics. But I do get tired of going to the store and buying what I can afford after a tax bill or car repair or vet bill and seeing those on assistance buying things most of us working stiffs can't afford.

I hear people say this a lot. I don't think this ever happens to me. I checked with my partner, and it doesn't happen to her either.

Where are you seeing these people and how can you tell they are on assistance?

 

[nigel1]

Yes, Wolfie, it appears you're relying on stale, 40-year-old talking points that are never really vetted by anyone (or even consistent within your post). Anecdotes don't count, especially if you don't know the life history of the person standing next to you in the checkout line.

 

[Wolfie]

Yes, Wolfie, it appears you're relying on stale, 40-year-old talking points that are never really vetted by anyone (or even consistent within your post). Anecdotes don't count, especially if you don't know the life history of the person standing next to you in the checkout line.

You are right, I don't know the history of the person standing next to me in the checkout line. But I DO see what they are buying. And I'm not going just by what I see in the stores. I know several people on gov't assistance. Some that use it as it should be used, and some that make it a way of life.

I was visiting friends in assisted housing and the place was too hot. So instead of turning down the thermostat they opened a window saying "we don't pay for it anyway." Even my own friends don't get as bent out of shape when I say "hey that's not right" as strangers on the Internet seem to. That's not an isolated incident either by the way. I've heard the "I'm not paying so I don't care" mentality far too often.

 

[Wolfie]

I hear people say this a lot. I don't think this ever happens to me. I checked with my partner, and it doesn't happen to her either.

Where are you seeing these people and how can you tell they are on assistance?

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say maybe you and your partner make more $$ than I do, if you don't see people buying stuff you couldn't afford. You can tell who's on the gov't dole for food if you happen to see their card. No, believe it or not I don't look intentionally, but sometimes you can't miss it. And yes, they DO buy steak and other expensive items while I buy beans, rice and peanut butter. Not that I want steak of course, but my point is they live better than many of us who pay our own way. Steak, prepared meals, junk food, none of it should be allowed on the taxpayer's dime. Provide the basics so people don't go hungry, period. Then maybe there would be enough to help anyone who needed it instead of only select groups.

 

[das_nut]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say maybe you and your partner make more $$ than I do, if you don't see people buying stuff you couldn't afford.

I just don't notice poor people buying extravagant stuff.

Maybe some of it's where I shop - out of the four or five places I shop regularly at, we can rule out the cooperative. Prices are too expensive for the poor. While the Middle Eastern, south Asian, and east Asian shops are filled with people who can make a food budget stretch in ways I envy.

But that still leaves the mainstream American supermarket. I don't really see people there with EBTs buying extravagant food.

Maybe I need to go to a SuperWalmart or something?

Steak, prepared meals, junk food, none of it should be allowed on the taxpayer's dime. Provide the basics so people don't go hungry, period. Then maybe there would be enough to help anyone who needed it instead of only select groups.

Before you criticize prepared meals, I did know someone on SNAP that bought them. Then again, they didn't have easy access to a kitchen where they could securely store and prepare food. So they bought food I thought was crap. They never really learned to cook either, so when they had access to a kitchen, they weren't very good at making food.

I suppose more education would help.

I'm sure there are some people who legitimately abuse and cheat the system - not reporting a live-in partner's income, or even their existence. They do a great disservice - both by cheating the system directly, and by giving the impression that SNAP provides enough money to live extravagantly. It does not. If you're lucky, you'll have $2 per meal to eat. If you're average, you'll have a lot less.

 

[sequoia]

It's none of your dawn business what people do with their money. You don't know if those purses and manicures are gifts oe how they were paid for. And yeah, I do know a lot about your generation. Enough to comfortably state that most of you had it easier than people today have it. The economy was better. That is a fact. College didn't cost as much. That is a fact. Minimum wage was something you could actually live on. Fact.