Why Don't Some People Like Charity?

[Amy SF]

It's none of your dawn business what people do with their money. You don't know if those purses and manicures are gifts oe how they were paid for. And yeah, I do know a lot about your generation. Enough to comfortably state that most of you had it easier than people today have it. The economy was better. That is a fact. College didn't cost as much. That is a fact. Minimum wage was something you could actually live on. Fact.

So you're ready to condemn an entire generation just because you're angry at the economy?

 

[beancounter]

So you're ready to condemn an entire generation just because you're angry at the economy?

I don't believe that was the intent of her post.

 

[nigel1]

Yes, Sequoia, you should probably cool it with that ageism crap. "My generation" helped subsidize your education, a lot of us are public servants, and we're frustrated about many of the things that you are. We can blame it all on the previous generation, too, but hopefully most of us grew up enough to realize that we have to take some responsibility for ourselves.

 

[nigel1]

I don't believe that was the intent of her post.

It seemed pretty clear to me.

 

[beancounter]

It seemed pretty clear to me.

Perhaps I didn't follow the entire string but it seems that she was saying the cost of living was less "back then" relative to incomes, and therefore it was easier to make ends meet. And because it was easier to make ends meet, the prior generations don't understand how difficult it is to do today.

Also, it's fair to say that decisions made by prior generations can impact later generations.

 

[nigel1]

Perhaps I didn't follow the entire string but it seems that she was saying the cost of living was less "back then" relative to incomes, and therefore it was easier to make ends meet. And because it was easier to make ends meet, the prior generations don't understand how difficult it is to do today.

Also, it's fair to say that decisions made by prior generations can impact later generations.

Yeah, she did say that. She also said this:

YOUR generation ****ed everything up for US.

 

[das_nut]

The boomers aren't all bad. Sure, they screwed up on gay rights[1], global warming[2], income distribution[3], sustainability[4] and are still continuing to screw things up now[5].

But they did do some amazing things in regards to increasing racial equality[6], steps to protect the environment[7] (even though it did take some drastic events[8] to help spur them along), and some other steps as well.

All and all, they probably were better than their parents, and it's easy to miss stuff like income inequality and shifting away from a manufacturing to service/intellectual economy while incomes are still high and life is good.

In a few decades, we'll be the old folks who are against different trends and who missed or ignored the problems that developed while we were in power.

[1] 65% of 18 to 29 year olds support gay marriage, only 45% of 50 - 64 year olds do.
[2] See [5], and the current political climate.
[3] The top 5% have seen their inflation-adjusted income nearly double since 1967, while the bottom 3/5ths have seen mainly flat income growth. This may be due to the downward trend of tax rates on the highest income as well as not keeping minimum wage in pace with inflation.
[4] Between 1960 and 1990, urban density decreased by 28%, while urban land use continues to grow. In short, suburban sprawl.
[5] The average age of a federal House of Representatives is 57, the average Senator is 62.
[6] Civil rights movement.
[7] EPA, Clean Water Act, Clean Air Act, etc.
[8] Really, rivers should not catch fire.

 

[sequoia]

No, Amy, I'm condemning people of your generation who whine about my generation being "entitled".

And yes, Nigel, your generation did screw everything up and then have the gall to complain about my generation. I don't really care if it's ageism. It's a fact.

 

[sequoia]

Perhaps I didn't follow the entire string but it seems that she was saying the cost of living was less "back then" relative to incomes, and therefore it was easier to make ends meet. And because it was easier to make ends meet, the prior generations don't understand how difficult it is to do today.

Also, it's fair to say that decisions made by prior generations can impact later generations.

Exactly.

 

[Wolfie]

Evidently you don't know much. Minimum wage has never been enough to live on since I've been working and college not cheap. How do you even know what generation any of us are from, anyway?

 

[Wolfie]

Perhaps I didn't follow the entire string but it seems that she was saying the cost of living was less "back then" relative to incomes, and therefore it was easier to make ends meet. And because it was easier to make ends meet, the prior generations don't understand how difficult it is to do today.

I don't know what you mean my "back then" but I am still working and quite a long time from being able to retire, if I ever will be able to retire. She's generalizing anyone older than her I guess when she has no idea what my life has been like.

 

[Wolfie]

No, Amy, I'm condemning people of your generation who whine about my generation being "entitled".

I wasn't criticizing a specific generation. I know people of all ages who abuse the system. And never have I said ALL people getting assistance abuse it.

 

[sequoia]

I wasn't criticizing a specific generation. I know people of all ages who abuse the system. And never have I said ALL people getting assistance abuse it.

You said "We need more of this today, instead of the sense of entitlement that prevails."

I mean, I suppose that could mean that people of all generations who are alive today have a sense of entitlement. I'm sorry if I assumed something you didn't mean. But it really does come across as though you are criticizing younger people.

I'm guessing that you are middle aged or older. Whether you entered college and the job market in the 60s, 70s, 80s, or 90s, the fact remains that most everything was more affordable compared to now.

 

[nigel1]

So what is "your generation?" I still don't get it. More affordable? What's that? When people of "my generation" went to college many of us worked for 3.25 an hour and doubled up in crappy apartments with no heat.

Everything was cheaper in the previous generation. Anyone can claim that. You're foolish if you think you have new troubles, Sequoia. It's likely that I was in college before you were born and I am still paying off college loans. Many people like me also live non-financially rich lives, have a home, a family and/or community, wonderful adventures and - guess what - stress and uncertainty. It's time to grow up and learn that life doesn't become perfect at 25.

 

[kazyeeqen]

I don't even like asking people for emotional support, so I know it'd very challenging indeed to ask for any other kind of help.

 

[ledboots]

It's none of your dawn business what people do with their money. You don't know if those purses and manicures are gifts oe how they were paid for. And yeah, I do know a lot about your generation. Enough to comfortably state that most of you had it easier than people today have it. The economy was better. That is a fact. College didn't cost as much. That is a fact. Minimum wage was something you could actually live on. Fact.

On my first job I made $50/week before taxes for a 45-hour work week. Fact. Even in the '70's you couldn't possibly live on minimum wage.

 

[das_nut]

So what is "your generation?" I still don't get it. More affordable? What's that? When people of "my generation" went to college many of us worked for 3.25 an hour and doubled up in crappy apartments with no heat.

Let's see. $3.25/hr. Say that's near minimum wage.

If it's 1980, when the minimum wage was $3.10/hr, then $3.25/hr would be equivalent to $9.24/hr today.

If you're going to an average priced college in 1980, then you're paying $1,679/year in tuition and fees (about $4771 today).

You'd have to work 540 hours @ $3.25/hr, or 10.5 hrs/week to pay it.

Now, the minimum wage is $7.25/hr. If we add an inflation-adjusted $0.10/hr to that, we get about $7.50/hr. The average college cost is $12,467 for tuition and fees. You'd have to work 1662 hours @ 7.50/hr to be able to pay that. Or 32 hrs/week.

I think the numbers speak for themselves. If the people of "your generation" had to double up in crappy apartments without heat just to be able to afford college, how can you expect today's generation to be able to afford it without going deeply in debt?

 

[nigel1]

Let's see. $3.25/hr. Say that's near minimum wage.

If it's 1980, when the minimum wage was $3.10/hr, then $3.25/hr would be equivalent to $9.24/hr today.

If you're going to an average priced college in 1980, then you're paying $1,679/year in tuition and fees (about $4771 today).

You'd have to work 540 hours @ $3.25/hr, or 10.5 hrs/week to pay it.

Now, the minimum wage is $7.25/hr. If we add an inflation-adjusted $0.10/hr to that, we get about $7.50/hr. The average college cost is $12,467 for tuition and fees. You'd have to work 1662 hours @ 7.50/hr to be able to pay that. Or 32 hrs/week.

I think the numbers speak for themselves. If the people of "your generation" had to double up in crappy apartments without heat just to be able to afford college, how can you expect today's generation to be able to afford it without going deeply in debt?

Excellent math, das. I'm not sure where I made any claim that school isn't less affordable. I'm sure that it is, and that the loss of the quality of that education is an even greater disaster. I was merely responding to Sequoia's apparent understanding that there was a singular mass of people 20-30 years older than her who had it easy and managed to make her life a ruin.

 

[Wolfie]

I mean, I suppose that could mean that people of all generations who are alive today have a sense of entitlement.

That is what I meant. I know people of all ages who think the world owes them everything.

 

[das_nut]

Excellent math, das. I'm not sure where I made any claim that school isn't less affordable. I'm sure that it is, and that the loss of the quality of that education is an even greater disaster. I was merely responding to Sequoia's apparent understanding that there was a singular mass of people 20-30 years older than her who had it easy and managed to make her life a ruin.

I doubt it was easy, but it probably was a lot easier than it is now.