Why poor people make bad decisions

So how is having a brand new car that you're still paying of and is depreciating an investment?

The things I listed as middle class 'investment' were very clearly limited to ...

1. Bricks and Mortar

2. Education & Qualification

Why give me a list of things that are clearly well outside that scope and ask me how they are?

The middle class tends to be in debt. Much of it may be "good debt", but it is still debt. And there's still plenty of bad debt.

And bad debt (rarely a result of good decision making?) makes you poor which puts us right back in the loop of, is it either that:

1. Poor people make bad decisions

Or ...

2. Bad decisions make/keep people poor
 
They would have less debt and/or more money available for necessities.

I think it could be reaonably argued that a basic cell phone is a necessity. But there is no way a smartphone, espcially a high end smart phone is a necessity
The poor person, on average, will remain poor whether he or she has any nice things or not. Capitalism is only designed to benefit a very small percentage of people.
 
I agree with all the libertarianism people are advocating here in principle. When my mommy was dirt poor with us kiddos she was smart about it and bought five gallon buckets of oatmeal and rice and beans and made a little go a long way in both cost and health. Good for her, and me.

But in practice it's classist. The point of the article is that there are reasons many chronically poor people make poor spending decisions, not if they should. Obviously they shouldn't, no one should, but some, maybe many, do. There are reasons they do. And it's not up to us to police people's spending, even if some people think it should be because you are 'paying for it' through taxes. It's still not. The problem is chronic poverty.
 
Why give me a list of things that are clearly well outside that scope and ask me how they are?

Because the middle class tends to have those debts, in addition to other debts.

They also tend to go deeply in debt for housing (frequently becoming "house poor") and education (instead of taking steps to reduce their educational costs). It seems there's a lot to criticize about how the middle class lives their lives, isn't there?

And bad debt (rarely a result of good decision making?) makes you poor which puts us right back in the loop of, is it either that:

1. Poor people make bad decisions

Or ...

2. Bad decisions make/keep people poor

Bad debt can cause poverty, but that doesn't mean that all poverty is due to bad debt. Just because A leads to B doesn't mean all B stems from A.
 
I agree with all the libertarianism people are advocating here in principle. When my mommy was dirt poor with us kiddos she was smart about it and bought five gallon buckets of oatmeal and rice and beans and made a little go a long way in both cost and health. Good for her, and me.

But in practice it's classist. The point of the article is that there are reasons many chronically poor people make poor spending decisions, not if they should. Obviously they shouldn't, no one should, but some, maybe many, do. There are reasons they do. And it's not up to us to police people's spending, even if some people think it should be because you are 'paying for it' through taxes. It's still not. The problem is chronic poverty.

:up:to your mom.

So those working their butts of who can't afford a smartphone should just shut up while people on assistance buy one? And the taxpayers owe it to people to buy them a cartload of junk food, even if they are living on beans and rice?

People living on the dole should not live better than those funding it. For one, it's not fair. And two, if the waste was trimmed, there would be more money available to help more people. As it is, in my state anyway, only certain groups can get any kind of assistance.
 
Because I have seen it, despite people on this board telling me it does not happen.
 
Also, here's an interesting article about why poor people buy nice things:

At the heart of these incredulous statements about the poor decisions poor people make is a belief that we would never be like them. We would know better. We would know to save our money, eschew status symbols, cut coupons, practice puritanical sacrifice to amass a million dollars. There is a regular news story of a lunch lady who, unbeknownst to all who knew her, died rich and leaves it all to a cat or a charity or some such. Books about the modest lives of the rich like to tell us how they drive Buicks instead of BMWs. What we forget, if we ever know, is that what we know now about status and wealth creation and sacrifice are predicated on who we are, i.e. not poor. If you change the conditions of your not-poor status, you change everything you know as a result of being a not-poor. You have no idea what you would do if you were poor until you are poor. And not intermittently poor or formerly not-poor, but born poor, expected to be poor and treated by bureaucracies, gatekeepers and well-meaning respectability authorities as inherently poor. Then, and only then, will you understand the relative value of a ridiculous status symbol to someone who intuits that they cannot afford to not have it.
 
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I think it's obvious that many people make bad decisions about money, not just poor people. When my father left, my mother lived on benefits and I was classed as "poor" as I had free school meals and got a grant to study at uni but I have to say that I haven't ever had the mindset of a poor person. I've always felt that things can get better or that I can change my own circumstances and I think some poor people must feel hopeless about their situation.

Apart from a few years ago when I lost my job and we struggled for quite a while we have managed to dig ourselves out of debt and are now comfortable, although living fairly frugally. I think our debt (which was at one point about £150K plus in total) was mainly due to bad decisions, as well as external factors like high house prices. We had store cards, credit cards and I had some student debt and we only paid the minimum charges and if I could go back in time and punch us in the face I would.:D From my own experience I know there is a massive psychological difference between living frugally through choice and living frugally because it is the only choice you have.
 
Prepare to be amazed! No one I know on the dole lives a middle class lifestyle.

Are you surprised?!

I'm not at all surprised. No.

Mainly because I didn't say that anyone on the dole lives a middle class lifestyle.

I did say that some on benefit level incomes spend as if they had middle class incomes though.

Obviously the money runs out and they get into overspending debt long before a middle class lifestyle is actualy acheived.

When my mommy was dirt poor with us kiddos she was smart about it and bought five gallon buckets of oatmeal and rice and beans and made a little go a long way in both cost and health. Good for her, and me.

Yo' momma is very wise :master:
 
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:up:to your mom.

So those working their butts of who can't afford a smartphone should just shut up while people on assistance buy one? And the taxpayers owe it to people to buy them a cartload of junk food, even if they are living on beans and rice?

That's exactly what she said, right?

People living on the dole should not live better than those funding it. For one, it's not fair. And two, if the waste was trimmed, there would be more money available to help more people. As it is, in my state anyway, only certain groups can get any kind of assistance.

Back to the woman with 17 kids and a Coach bag on food stamps, eh?
 
It seems there's a lot to criticize about how the middle class lives their lives, isn't there?

And a lot to criticise about how the super-rich live their lives, most likely.

One thing being criticisable for one reason does not invalidate criticism of another thing for other reasons though.

Bad debt can cause poverty, but that doesn't mean that all poverty is due to bad debt. Just because A leads to B doesn't mean all B stems from A.

Exactly so.

I am pretty sure that I never said anything remotely like ALL poverty is due to, or stems from, bad debt though.