Why poor people make bad decisions

[Ann Chovie]

I'm just fascinated about how it appears to be popular to judge the poor on their financial decisions, but not judge the middle class.

Why is that?

Not true in benefit land das..

middle class claimants of benefits are treated far harsher than poor claimants.

There seems to be an acceptance or at least an acknowledgment that poor people make bad decisions, but a lack of compassion when middle class people do the same .

Prehaps the assumption is that middle class people always make good decisions and that is how they got to be middle class in the first place?

 

[Ann Chovie]

Everyone makes bad decisions the difference is ..

When the middle class make bad decisions the only impact is on their own savings level or household income.

But when the poor make bad decisions society is often left to deal with the fall out.

 

[Moll Flanders]

Not true in benefit land das..

middle class claimants of benefits are treated far harsher than poor claimants.

There seems to be an acceptance or at least an acknowledgment that poor people make bad decisions, but a lack of compassion when middle class people do the same .

Prehaps the assumption is that middle class people always make good decisions and that is how they got to be middle class in the first place?

Do you mean by job centre staff or by the rest of society in general? If you mean by job centre staff then they should be treating all claimants the same as it is their job to be professional despite their personal views.

 

[Ann Chovie]

Do you mean by job centre staff or by the rest of society in general? If you mean by job centre staff then they should be treating all claimants the same as it is their job to be professional despite their personal views.

Hi Moll
I was thinking in this instance of benefit staff I deal with on the telephone I could not comment on Jobcentre staff.

Yes I agree that all claimants should be treated the same and yes the rules are the same.

What I am referring to is the change in attitude if I am discussing the case of a middle class client as opposed to what we are calling on here 'poor ' people, espeically with regard to income and expenditure break downs. There are more judgemental remarks made about their purchase of 'luxury' items and them 'living beyond their means'.

I agree that personal views should not spill into professional interactions but human nature being what it is they sometimes inadvertently do. One person remarked about a lady of 'reduced circumstance ' welcome to the real world and life living on benefits' this was followed by an embarrassed cough and a swift apology!!!

Personal views and judgements go both ways of course..had a well heeled client who spent most of our appointment bemoaning the fact that she could not buy 'my special eggs from Waitrose' remarked with horror that she would have to 'shop at Aldi and queue up at the Jobcentre like poor people do'

 

[das_nut]

Either that or it must be possible for a middle class person to have lower net worth than a working class person without actualy being 'poorer' than them?

Yep. Americans have a funny attitude towards poverty - “The poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires," as Steinbeck once said.

If someone makes $80k/yr and has a net $-300k in net worth (due to mortgage/student loans/automobile loans), they will consider themselves middle class, and so will society.

While if someone makes $15k/yr and has $1k in net work (misc possessions), they will be considered poor.

 

[Moll Flanders]

I agree that personal views should not spill into professional interactions but human nature being what it is they sometimes inadvertently do.

That is true.

 

[ledboots]

Thank you. But I was in communications, not in the infantry. For me, it was just a job, just like any other. And I got to see other parts of the world, also on the taxpayer's dime, to boot. Making sure I had the G.I. Bill clause in my contract makes me smart, not a hero. Not that I'm denying the extreme sacrifices other vets have made or the fact that being in the military can really change you (and not always for the better) or that it wasn't difficult or I didn't struggle - I'm just saying hooking up computers isn't exactly the mental picture many people get when they picture military service.

So why is it when I use government handouts to better myself, it's seen as a positive, but when people in dire economic conditions use government handouts to better themselves it's seen as a negative?

It doesn't matter if you're in the infantry, a cook, in the marching band, in IT, or whatever. You served our country; all those jobs are needed. And you know they could press a rifle in your hand at any emergency. I think that GI benefits are well-deserved.

I think a lot of people resent those on gov't benefits because it doesn't seem like some are trying to better themselves. When I lost my job last year, I went to the state job center to register for open jobs, get help with my resume and interviewing skills, and it was the most depressing thing ever. All they did was tell people how to keep compliant so they could continue to receive unemployment insurance.

I mentioned to a young woman there that the retail store my daughter works at is hiring, and she laughed and said she would lose her unemployment check, food stamps, and medicaid. I know everyone isn't like that, but with the supposed high unemployment, the store she works in still can't find employees. And the pay isn't bad, it is over minimum wage plus great commission.

 

[das_nut]

I mentioned to a young woman there that the retail store my daughter works at is hiring, and she laughed and said she would lose her unemployment check, food stamps, and medicaid. I know everyone isn't like that, but with the supposed high unemployment, the store she works in still can't find employees. And the pay isn't bad, it is over minimum wage plus great commission.

What about medical?

When a friend of mine way laid off due to plant cutbacks in a small town, she told me how stupid it was for her to find a new job. She got unemployment and qualified for state medical care. Sure, she could get a gas station job, but the medical sucks, and for some reason pregnant women are really into having decent medical coverage.

I must conclude that pregnant women are lazy. /sarcasm.

 

[Wolfie]

What about medical?

When a friend of mine way laid off due to plant cutbacks in a small town, she told me how stupid it was for her to find a new job. She got unemployment and qualified for state medical care. Sure, she could get a gas station job, but the medical sucks, and for some reason pregnant women are really into having decent medical coverage.

I must conclude that pregnant women are lazy. /sarcasm.

Here, if you had a gas station job and were pregnant, you'd still qualify for Medicaid. I know women with small children who work full time plus and still qualify for both themselves and their kids. But they are trying to better their situation, not live off benefits indefinitely. There's a difference.

Not referring to your friend of course. I don't know her and I know benefits vary state by state.

 

[Wolfie]

It doesn't matter if you're in the infantry, a cook, in the marching band, in IT, or whatever. You served our country; all those jobs are needed. And you know they could press a rifle in your hand at any emergency. I think that GI benefits are well-deserved.

I think a lot of people resent those on gov't benefits because it doesn't seem like some are trying to better themselves. When I lost my job last year, I went to the state job center to register for open jobs, get help with my resume and interviewing skills, and it was the most depressing thing ever. All they did was tell people how to keep compliant so they could continue to receive unemployment insurance.

I mentioned to a young woman there that the retail store my daughter works at is hiring, and she laughed and said she would lose her unemployment check, food stamps, and medicaid. I know everyone isn't like that, but with the supposed high unemployment, the store she works in still can't find employees. And the pay isn't bad, it is over minimum wage plus great commission.

What she said.

 

[das_nut]

Here, if you had a gas station job and were pregnant, you'd still qualify for Medicaid. I know women with small children who work full time plus and still qualify for both themselves and their kids. But they are trying to better their situation, not live off benefits indefinitely. There's a difference.

I don't know how it worked for her. I know someone here that didn't have some sort of insurance (medical, dental, optical, prescription drug, something like that) because while they made well less than minimum wage, they ended up not qualifying for free insurance, but had to pay a small monthly fee that they couldn't afford.

 

[ledboots]

I don't know how it worked for her. I know someone here that didn't have some sort of insurance (medical, dental, optical, prescription drug, something like that) because while they made well less than minimum wage, they ended up not qualifying for free insurance, but had to pay a small monthly fee that they couldn't afford.

Pregnant women usually qualify for medicaid. And the babies as well. The woman I was talking to wasn't pregnant to my knowledge. The store my daughter works in offers medical benefits to even part-time employees. It does cost money, but so does food and gas.

 

[Freesia]

It doesn't matter if you're in the infantry, a cook, in the marching band, in IT, or whatever. You served our country; all those jobs are needed. And you know they could press a rifle in your hand at any emergency. I think that GI benefits are well-deserved.

I think a lot of people resent those on gov't benefits because it doesn't seem like some are trying to better themselves. When I lost my job last year, I went to the state job center to register for open jobs, get help with my resume and interviewing skills, and it was the most depressing thing ever. All they did was tell people how to keep compliant so they could continue to receive unemployment insurance.

I mentioned to a young woman there that the retail store my daughter works at is hiring, and she laughed and said she would lose her unemployment check, food stamps, and medicaid. I know everyone isn't like that, but with the supposed high unemployment, the store she works in still can't find employees. And the pay isn't bad, it is over minimum wage plus great commission.

it is the opposite over here. You are harrassed endlessly to get a job by the staff, even if you have a disability, and the benefit itself is barely enough to live on. Also if you are dating somebody they take half of it away and tell you your partner should support you.

I should be on disability because I have a disability. But they made it so hard for me- even with medical documentation- that I ended up going off it. And now I am in the bad situation I am in now, which at least beats being homeless.

 

[nigel1]

it is the opposite over here. You are harrassed endlessly to get a job by the staff, even if you have a disability, and the benefit itself is barely enough to live on. Also if you are dating somebody they take half of it away and tell you your partner should support you.

I should be on disability because I have a disability. But they made it so hard for me- even with medical documentation- that I ended up going off it. And now I am in the bad situation I am in now, which at least beats being homeless.

Freesia, where do you live?

 

[Freesia]

New Zealand.

 

[das_nut]

Pregnant women usually qualify for medicaid. And the babies as well. The woman I was talking to wasn't pregnant to my knowledge. The store my daughter works in offers medical benefits to even part-time employees. It does cost money, but so does food and gas.

Was it going to be part time or full time?

 

[nigel1]

New Zealand.

That's interesting. How does the government measure the level of your involvement with your partner to make their determinations? How do they differentiate between "partners" and roommates?

 

[Freesia]

They want you to inform them if you are seeing someone. If you live with them, you are automaticlly their common law partner, so to the government it is like you are married to them.

But I remember when I told the caseworker, years ago, that I had been dating my ex for a few months, he got very angry and said that I should have told them that (even though we werent living together so I didnt think it was an issue).

 

[kazyeeqen]

That must get complicated with relationships that are facebook complicated. As if they weren't already complicated enough.

 

[ledboots]

Was it going to be part time or full time?

Full time! In retail! With salary and commission, and lots of free gorgeous sunglasses for bonuses. It's a decent job.