How to answer 'those' questions

[SummerRain]

This is someone in the UK who said that.

Well pointing out that there aren't any predators would probably only lead to people asking what will control the massive farm animal population then...

A better response might be to point out that farm animals are bred so their existence depends upon us breeding them. If everyone stopped eating meat, it would happen as a gradual decrease, so animals would be bred less and less and eventually there wouldn't be any farm animals.

 

[Clueless Git]

In the UK, I don't think we've actually let any predators live that could take on a cow/sheep.

Aye,

And now the refrain of those who like to kill is "But, but we have to cull to stop 'em starving - 'cos there ain't no natural predators".

This is my 'favourite' circular argument of all time; "We killed them because they kill what we want to kill. Now we have to kill what they would have killed because ... errr ... we killed them".

Which gives me an idea for a new topic ..

 

[shyvas]

Aye,

And now the refrain of those who like to kill is "But, but we have to cull to stop 'em starving - 'cos there ain't no natural predators".

This is my 'favourite' circular argument of all time; "We killed them because they kill what we want to kill. Now we have to kill what they would have killed because ... errr ... we killed them".

Which gives me an idea for a new topic ..

 

[Clueless Git]

If it didn't make sense that is because it doesn't make sense Shyvas.

The argument that justifies culls is a patent'n'blatant circular nonsense, basicaly.

 

[Fromper]

My usual answer to the "What do you eat?" question is "Everything else". If they genuinely seem to care, I'll tell them what I actually ate that particular day.

--Fromper

 

[peacefulveglady]

I usually say whole plant foods, fruits, veggies, salads and lettuce and greens, lentils and beans and legumes and some rice stuff, Pasta, Anything that is related to Vegan/Veg lifestyle/green living.

 

[Alice-Bee]

As we know, taking something from an animal for mass human consumption will usually end in the death of animals, as in in the egg industry male chicks are killed for example. Is it right to go straight to this as an answer when a non veg*n asks 'why dont you eat (honey/eggs/something that is seen as not directly harming an animal)

I sometimes feel that talking about the deaths of animals, although factual, can come across as "guilting" change in people that dont want to, and may even result in them disconnecting further with the cruelty.

 

[Pirate]

If someone is a vegetarian, it's usually because they don't want to kill animals for food. Most omnis can appreciate that even if they disagree. So I don't think mentioning eggs/dairy causing the death of animals is that much more of a guilt trip. If someone eats meat they obviously dont give a **** about animals dieing for food anyway!

 

[Alice-Bee]

I mean that I would hope all omnis realise that meat=dead animal but I dont think they realise that eggs/honey/milk result in death for the animals also. By pointing that out, will it make (some of) them more defensive. Seeing us as 'cramming our choice down their throats', when we are meerly presenting facts.

 

[Clueless Git]

I mean that I would hope all omnis realise that meat=dead animal but I dont think they realise that eggs/honey/milk result in death for the animals also.
Your theory seems to be that those who feel no guilt. By pointing that out, will it make (some of) them more defensive.

I think you miss Liz's point, Alice.

Either people feel defensive about killing animals for food or they don't.

Like why would anyone get defensive about killing cows for milk if they don't already feel defensive about killing cows for meat?

 

[Alice-Bee]

Because people KNOW an animal has to die for meat but Im suprised how many dont know an animal dies for milk (ie male calves and the hefer herself when shes usedup)

Imagine the conversation:

-LOL I dont know why vegans dont drink milk, cows NEED to be milked

-Actually, A female cow is impregnated, calf taken away, milk taken...when shes too old she is killed, and any male babies are either killed ouright or used as veal.

-Stupid vegans...shoving their propaganda down our throats!


Perhaps it hasnt happen to you, so youre missing my point. A misinformed non vegan being corrected often ends in a defensive backlash.

 

[Clueless Git]

A better response might be to point out that farm animals are bred so their existence depends upon us breeding them. If everyone stopped eating meat, it would happen as a gradual decrease, so animals would be bred less and less and eventually there wouldn't be any farm animals.

Aye,

Factoid: The maximum lifespan of an animal bred for meat is about 2 years. For dairy cattle 5-7 (at which point slaughter is a mercifull release).

If all breeding stopped immediately it would take 2 years for meat, 5-7 for dairy, before the 'supplies' already in the chain actualy ran out. 2-7 years 'adjustment' time, basicaly.

Even if everyone become instantly vegan then the entire flocks and herds of livestock would only need to be looked after for one generation of each species already in the system anyway.

 

[Clueless Git]

A misinformed non vegan being corrected often ends in a defensive backlash.

Only if that misinformed non-vegan feels that killing animals for food is something to be defensive about the first place.

People simply don't get defensive over issues they genuinely believe to require absolutely no defence.

The notion that anyone would get defensive over a matter they genuinely feel requires no defending simply makes no sense.

 

[LuvOurMother]

The animals killed during harvest question comes up sometimes.

http://www.animalvisuals.org/projects/data/1mc/
This visual puts into perspective.

 

[Clueless Git]

The animals killed during harvest question comes up sometimes.

Good article. It deals with another of my favourite nonsenses ...

The idea that a vegan diet kills as many or more animals than a meat-based diet is sometimes used as a rationalization for consuming meat, and this idea serves to add uncertainty to the ethical case for a plant-based diet.

Harvesting/agricultural kill are obviously going to be higher for the diet that requires most harvervesting/agriculture.

The choices are simply:

1. A diet needing enough harvesting/agriculture to sustain a human population alone.

2. A diet needing enough harvesting/agriculture to sustain a human population PLUS their vast animal flocks and herds.

Total no-brainer, imho.

 

[Alice-Bee]

Only if that misinformed non-vegan feels that killing animals for food is something to be defensive about the first place.

People simply don't get defensive over issues they genuinely believe to require absolutely no defence.

The notion that anyone would get defensive over a matter they genuinely feel requires no defending simply makes no sense.

Some people dont like hearing what they believed to be facts as wrong. In my experience stubborn people do not like to feel asthough they are being corrected.
Telling the true facts about say the Egg industry has been met(for me) with sense of 'Youre lying...Youre Wrong...my Aunt has chickens blah blah blah'

 

[Clueless Git]

Some people dont like hearing what they believed to be facts as wrong.

The only answer to that is never to tell anyone any facts, just in case?

I think our only real difference is a difference in caution levels though, Alice.

Over cautious and under cautious both carrying risk of getting it right or getting it wrong.

As much a good thing as it is a bad thing, I would reason ...

Different approaches work for different people. One size don't fit all, as it were.

Having multiple veg-head approaches means more chance of every omni being approached in the way that works best on them at some or other time?

 

[SummerRain]

As we know, taking something from an animal for mass human consumption will usually end in the death of animals, as in in the egg industry male chicks are killed for example. Is it right to go straight to this as an answer when a non veg*n asks 'why dont you eat (honey/eggs/something that is seen as not directly harming an animal)

I sometimes feel that talking about the deaths of animals, although factual, can come across as "guilting" change in people that dont want to, and may even result in them disconnecting further with the cruelty.

I don't think there's a right thing to do, it depends what you're after.

But if you want to avoid people being offended, I've always mentioned this and never had a problem with people thinking I'm guilt tripping them. I think there are two main things that I find stop people being offended are:

1. Only bring it up, if asked (or if the topic of conversation has already been bought up). The main thing that seems to irritate people, is bringing up animal cruelty when people aren't interested (and I've seen it done, and I've seen them be called preachy later, which seemed to reinforce my point to me).

2. Don't try to convince anybody. Just state what you believe, explain it's what you believe. Don't hold back on what people are asking you for, but don't turn it into a debate either.

I'm not saying don't be honest, because I'm happy to say "I believe the dairy industry is wrong because it kills the calves required to produce milk" or when asked "I don't believe people should consume dairy, if it was down to me, nobody would", but I avoid convincing people and I avoiding bringing the topic up myself and I have never had anybody call me preachy or be offended.

Anyway that isn't general advice... it's just my experience, if you want to avoid offending people. If you don't mind offending people, and want to change peoples minds and choices, this advice isn't for you!

 

[Everleigh]

If someone asks me why I don't eat meat I just say I don't feel comfortable eating meat and I don't feel comfortable with the dairy and egg industry either.Usually people don't want you to feel uncomfortable about having a conversation like that so usually they don't say anything more.It's kind of a simple response but than if they go on to ask questions and you feel they are really interested then you can give them facts and explain your point of view.I don't think I try to convince anyone just tell them what I believe.

 

[CrazyCatLady]

I've had my mind go blank a few times when someone's asked what I eat. To quickly get an answer il just tell them what iv eaten that day...breakfast, lunch n dinner. Mostly people then say, "that's what I had too!!" Xxx