Couldn't agree more with David3 and have little to add, but please remember that a good loving relationship with your parents is very important and it would be wise not to adopt an antagonistic confrontational route which might jeopardise that.
NZ My parents won't let me go vegetarian
- Thread starter Luis Halson
- Start date
OP
OP
I am putting the situation on pause (not stop, but pause). Here's why:
- It will give me and my parents time to relax and rethink it.
- It will give me a fresh start, so I can for example try to be less aggressive about it
- I am starting to understand that it will be hard for my family if I go veg, because we are sort-of nomads right now (we are flatting, and moved recently, and soon will have to move to a permanent home without flatmates), and the New Zealand nation wide lockdown also makes it harder for them.
Once we get a stable home, the lockdown ends etc. I'll try David3's approach.
The Master Of Design
Forum Practitioner
There are many approaches and I believe David's approach can work too. I would say whatever you feel comfortable with but then again, I could never change myself before I got outside my comfort zone. Relax approach can be good for you and that you don't fight with your family.
When I was 15 years old I would drink everyday, run away from home, and did not speak with my entire family. I loved every single day of it because I was not ignoring the fact they hurt me. Some people choose to suppress their emotions and later they search for a way to heal, it can also work. I believe it all comes down to character. Someone who has a strong character will not tolerate disrespect from anyone, not even their families. I knew and I know my values and do not allow anyone to bring me down or to tell me how eating and killing animals is ok.
When I was born I had a dog, my mother accidentally ran over that dog when I was 10 years old. That dog was my best friend, the connection with people can never be the same as connecting with the animals. You see, not right after that I got a second dog which one of my family members let him outside of garden (and we lived in area where there are many stray dogs) and he came after weeks all covered in blood and died in front of my house.
So, in these situations, you have to know who you are and who you want to become. Now, I am almost 27 years old and live a good relaxed life in Bali. What I want to say is that If I didn't fight back then I would probably explode sooner or later. I keep my circle small and people I let in my life are only people who give me peace and have the same values. You don't have to fight or explain everything to everyone but people who are with you daily such as friends and family are important. There you go, it's all up to you!
Update: I just saw your post and I think too you should pause in your situation. It's true it will give you and your parents time to rethink. When the virus is over and your parents live a more stable life than maybe you will be able to take a more aggressive or relaxed approach depending on how much this means to you.
When I was 15 years old I would drink everyday, run away from home, and did not speak with my entire family. I loved every single day of it because I was not ignoring the fact they hurt me. Some people choose to suppress their emotions and later they search for a way to heal, it can also work. I believe it all comes down to character. Someone who has a strong character will not tolerate disrespect from anyone, not even their families. I knew and I know my values and do not allow anyone to bring me down or to tell me how eating and killing animals is ok.
When I was born I had a dog, my mother accidentally ran over that dog when I was 10 years old. That dog was my best friend, the connection with people can never be the same as connecting with the animals. You see, not right after that I got a second dog which one of my family members let him outside of garden (and we lived in area where there are many stray dogs) and he came after weeks all covered in blood and died in front of my house.
So, in these situations, you have to know who you are and who you want to become. Now, I am almost 27 years old and live a good relaxed life in Bali. What I want to say is that If I didn't fight back then I would probably explode sooner or later. I keep my circle small and people I let in my life are only people who give me peace and have the same values. You don't have to fight or explain everything to everyone but people who are with you daily such as friends and family are important. There you go, it's all up to you!
Update: I just saw your post and I think too you should pause in your situation. It's true it will give you and your parents time to rethink. When the virus is over and your parents live a more stable life than maybe you will be able to take a more aggressive or relaxed approach depending on how much this means to you.
Last edited:
Jamie in Chile
Forum Legend
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2016
- Reaction score
- 1,854
- Age
- 44
- Lifestyle
- Vegetarian
Don't forget to thank them for offering a compromise and asking you to eat less meat.
However, their latest response is not ideal, this isn't going to be easy.
There are two objections here: cost and health.
On cost, point out that foods that are labelled vegan/vegetarian, such as milk and cheese, and burgers, are indeed more expensive but you don't want these foods, you just want to replace meat with beans/lentils or whatever else you want which is cheaper. You can also offer to help more with cooking or even earning money somehow.
On health, push the argument that veganism is healthy. If your parents are not the type to look at sciency stuff, you could try introducing them to healthy vegetarians, or make arguments about healthy sports star that are mostly vegan (find an example in their favourite sport).
It may make sense to accept the less meat argument for now, but I would accept it for a few short months not a year because animal suffering is a very serious issue. After a few months, try and get from less meat to a lot less.
However, their latest response is not ideal, this isn't going to be easy.
There are two objections here: cost and health.
On cost, point out that foods that are labelled vegan/vegetarian, such as milk and cheese, and burgers, are indeed more expensive but you don't want these foods, you just want to replace meat with beans/lentils or whatever else you want which is cheaper. You can also offer to help more with cooking or even earning money somehow.
On health, push the argument that veganism is healthy. If your parents are not the type to look at sciency stuff, you could try introducing them to healthy vegetarians, or make arguments about healthy sports star that are mostly vegan (find an example in their favourite sport).
It may make sense to accept the less meat argument for now, but I would accept it for a few short months not a year because animal suffering is a very serious issue. After a few months, try and get from less meat to a lot less.
OP
OP
This thread is getting so long (already 4 pages!!!)
I agree with Jamie in Chile - the compromise is not ideal, but it helped (it wasn't eat more veg meals but each meal has less meat than before). My parents say the sources I find about how vegan diets are healthy do not apply to us, because they think we don't eat that much meat that it is unhealthy, and that they do not apply to growing children like me. I would need sources that are specifically about veg diets for children. Once we get a home (we are still selling our old home, and we cannot live there so we are flatting meanwhile - I have a long and complicated backstory) I will ask them again, because like Jamie in Chile said, animal suffering is serious.
What do you think about this source? Is a Vegetarian Diet Healthy for Children?
Is it positive enough to be convincing? (if you recommend another source, it should be about children, not general)
I agree with Jamie in Chile - the compromise is not ideal, but it helped (it wasn't eat more veg meals but each meal has less meat than before). My parents say the sources I find about how vegan diets are healthy do not apply to us, because they think we don't eat that much meat that it is unhealthy, and that they do not apply to growing children like me. I would need sources that are specifically about veg diets for children. Once we get a home (we are still selling our old home, and we cannot live there so we are flatting meanwhile - I have a long and complicated backstory) I will ask them again, because like Jamie in Chile said, animal suffering is serious.
What do you think about this source? Is a Vegetarian Diet Healthy for Children?
Is it positive enough to be convincing? (if you recommend another source, it should be about children, not general)
David3
Forum Legend
I wouldn't recommend continuing to push so hard. Please relax, and give your parents time to adjust to your less-meat diet. It sounds like your family has gone through some very large changes recently. Why don't you wait until things have calmed down before discussing a full vegetarian diet with them.
The New Zealand government's Ministry of Health has published a vegetarian food guide, and it includes information on vegetarian diets for kids: https://www.healthed.govt.nz/system/files/resource-files/HE1519_Eating-for-healthy-vegetarians.pdf
.
.
The New Zealand government's Ministry of Health has published a vegetarian food guide, and it includes information on vegetarian diets for kids: https://www.healthed.govt.nz/system/files/resource-files/HE1519_Eating-for-healthy-vegetarians.pdf
.
.
Last edited:
Jamie in Chile
Forum Legend
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2016
- Reaction score
- 1,854
- Age
- 44
- Lifestyle
- Vegetarian
Teenage vegetarian/vegan nutrition needs are very similar to adult needs. One thing to consider is that you need to keep an eye on calcium. Vegan sources include "fortified juices and nondairy beverages, collard greens, kala, napa cabbage, beans, figs" according to a nutrition book I have "Becoming Nutrition".
Luis, The article you mention is not bad but the person quoted in in Tara Todd is subtly biased against vegetarian diets from a nutritional standpoint, and there are things in here that could be used against you by your parents.
Luis, The article you mention is not bad but the person quoted in in Tara Todd is subtly biased against vegetarian diets from a nutritional standpoint, and there are things in here that could be used against you by your parents.
Urban Gardener
Forum Legend
I went through this. I was 13 when I started giving up meat. My family practiced Christianity, so I started by giving up meat for Lent. That gave us all a chance to test the waters and see how it worked. I gave up meat for Lent again the next year and never started eating it again.
My family had mixed feelings about it, but it reduced their food budget and improved my health. I started cooking my own food, so that also freed up some time for them. In other words, the benefits were really obvious.
If your family practices a religion, it might be worthwhile to look into traditions where people give up meat for a period of time. A lot of religions have something like that. And it can be a way for traditionally-minded non-vegans to witness it in practice and learn about it.
Also, talk to your doctor! Ask your doctor for their opinion about plant-based diets. Ask them for advice. Ask about tests to make sure you're getting good nutrition as you transition. I think vitamin panels tend not to be expensive, and parents tend to be reassured by that kind of thing.
If your doctor is against plant-based diets, get a second opinion from another doctor. Ask nurses. Ask any medical professional you get to talk to.
I've been veg for more than a quarter century. Doctors used to be more neutral about it. Now that they've seen the long-term effects in more patients, they tend to be in favor of going plant-based. Many are tired of seeing the ill-effects of a diet that's too high in animal products and will applaud patients who want to be vegan or vegetarian.
Once you get medical professionals on your side, you can leverage them to help reason with your parents.
My family had mixed feelings about it, but it reduced their food budget and improved my health. I started cooking my own food, so that also freed up some time for them. In other words, the benefits were really obvious.
If your family practices a religion, it might be worthwhile to look into traditions where people give up meat for a period of time. A lot of religions have something like that. And it can be a way for traditionally-minded non-vegans to witness it in practice and learn about it.
Also, talk to your doctor! Ask your doctor for their opinion about plant-based diets. Ask them for advice. Ask about tests to make sure you're getting good nutrition as you transition. I think vitamin panels tend not to be expensive, and parents tend to be reassured by that kind of thing.
If your doctor is against plant-based diets, get a second opinion from another doctor. Ask nurses. Ask any medical professional you get to talk to.
I've been veg for more than a quarter century. Doctors used to be more neutral about it. Now that they've seen the long-term effects in more patients, they tend to be in favor of going plant-based. Many are tired of seeing the ill-effects of a diet that's too high in animal products and will applaud patients who want to be vegan or vegetarian.
Once you get medical professionals on your side, you can leverage them to help reason with your parents.
OP
OP
Of course, I'm not talking to my parents right now, and I won't ask them until we really get a stable life. Right now I'm just gathering advice and research so that later I can ask them.
I have read the guide you sent that the NZ ministry of health published, and it does have some good information, so thanks for that.
OP
OP
We had a delicious, vegan lentil spaghetti that I cooked with our flatmate yesterday. Even my parents said it was quite filling - maybe now they will realize that meat is not the only source of nutrients.
I found more sources about kids and veg diets, such as Going Vegan: Is It a Good Choice for Kids? and Is a vegan diet healthy for kids?
Do you think these sources are positive enough? (David3, I've also treasured your vegetarian eating guide, so I can use it later)
I found more sources about kids and veg diets, such as Going Vegan: Is It a Good Choice for Kids? and Is a vegan diet healthy for kids?
Do you think these sources are positive enough? (David3, I've also treasured your vegetarian eating guide, so I can use it later)
David3
Forum Legend
Hi Luis,
Lentils and spaghetti - very tasty dish! Good idea to focus on dishes that are filling and satisfying! Just keep doing that - making satisfying dishes that are similar to meals that they already enjoy. I think they will slowly start to feel more comfortable with vegan foods.
.
OP
OP
Yep, I am going to keep making satisfying vegan dishes for them.
Are there any more sources that show how its healthy to go vegan?
OP
OP
OP
OP
I've just found Becoming a Vegetarian (for Teens) - Nemours KidsHealth, Should Your Kids Go Vegetarian?, Is a Vegan Diet Safe for Growing Children? and Vegetarian Nutrition for Teenagers -- The Vegetarian Resource Group
Could you please check these sources and tell me if they are positive enough?
Could you please check these sources and tell me if they are positive enough?
Last edited:
David3
Forum Legend
I think it's more important that you choose accurate sources of vegan nutrition information. WebMD is not consistently a good source of accurate information. Your other sources look pretty good.
.
OP
OP
I read an article about how people are against veganism because they actually love animals:
www.medicalnewstoday.com
Basically, meat lovers usually love animals, and when someone reminds them that meat comes from animals (e.g. if someone is a vegan) the two ideas (eating meat and loving animals) clash, so they start making silly arguments to defend meat eating.
Why does veganism make people angry?
Veganism is growing in popularity, but the movement faces resistance. Here, we ask why the decision to follow a plant-based diet makes some people angry.
www.medicalnewstoday.com
Basically, meat lovers usually love animals, and when someone reminds them that meat comes from animals (e.g. if someone is a vegan) the two ideas (eating meat and loving animals) clash, so they start making silly arguments to defend meat eating.
OP
OP
I changed my account settings, and now I'm a flexitarian, not an omnivore, because my parents are letting me eat less meat than before! Yay!
On that note, I was walking in the countryside with a friend yesterday. There were loads of lambs everywhere - really little ones, very cute. She was admiring them, taking photos, exclaiming how lovely they were - and then told me that she had roast lamb for dinner later - and then incredibly, said, 'It's such a shame, but what can you do?' and shrugged her shoulders. Well, just stop eating them perhaps?!
rogerjolly
Forum Legend
Quote Michael: "..... and then incredibly, said, 'It's such a shame, but what can you do?' and shrugged her shoulders."
It can be worse than that because some people try to pass off such thoughts by making a joke.
I was once in a similar situation and my companion imitated the bleating noise of lambs. But his rendering of “baaaaa, baaaaa” was “mint sauce”.
Roger.
It can be worse than that because some people try to pass off such thoughts by making a joke.
I was once in a similar situation and my companion imitated the bleating noise of lambs. But his rendering of “baaaaa, baaaaa” was “mint sauce”.
Roger.
