"Proud white man"

[Envy]

American media isn't trying to be somewhat objective?

 

[ledboots]

When have Hispanics or Asians been persecuted or had their rights taken away? If you're talking about the United States only, the crime rate doesn't indicate they've been treated poorly. I'm hopeful one day we'll look at the person as an individual rather than group people together, but obviously judging from many posts here we're far away from that ever happening.

Ummmmmmm, have you heard of the Chinese being enslaved to build the railroads here? Or the Japanese-Americans being stripped of their goods and held prisoner in internment camps? How about the Mexican-Americans who pick the vegetables that you you eat, for pennies an hour, living in windowless trailers?

My daughter pointed out the other day that she was driving a few of her friends, one a Cuban guy, the other a mixed black/latin girl. They were pulled over for a faulty tail light, and the other two kids were amazed at how polite the cop was to my (white) daughter. Both said that their cars had been searched every time they have been stopped. Daughter got a verbal warning and a suggestion of where to get a light bulb for the car.

 

[Ann Chovie]

I wrote that some groups have some inbuilt problems due to the patriarchal nature of the culture of some countries, ie involuntary arranged marriages, women not being allowed to inherit property, etc.
.

I have come to this topic late and am slightly confused..

I am struggling to understand how women not being allowed to inherit property in one culture would have any bearing on their males " cultural struggle" and consequential reasons for committing rape?

 

[FortyTwo]

I have come to this topic late and am slightly confused.

Sorry but...

I am struggling to understand how women not being allowed to inherit property in one culture would have any bearing on their males " cultural struggle" and consequential reasons for committing rape?

Because elevating men above women on a societal level always leads to men abusing their power in more ways than one?

 

[Ann Chovie]

Because elevating men above women on a societal level always leads to men abusing their power in more ways than one?

Yes obviously I get that but..

Historically the same rules existed in this country . Was the Proud white man"s rape equally explainable and excusable then?

Or is the white man so privileged that his inbuilt problems are not valid?
Just seems to me that everyone is allowed a "struggle " that' justifies who they are and why they do the things they do except for the white male who apparently has no struggle at all.

 

[FortyTwo]

Yes obviously I get that but..

Historically the same rules existed in this country . Was the Proud white man"s rape equally explainable and excusable then?

Rape hasn't ever been excusable, though.

Or is the white man so privileged that his inbuilt problems are not valid?
Just seems to me that everyone is allowed a "struggle " that' justifies who they are and why they do the things they do except for the white male who apparently has no struggle at all.

In Western society as a whole, there aren't any struggles unique to white (straight cis abled) men. The further one deviates from that inbuilt norm, the more challenges one will face. The only 'struggle' I can think of is that they have to put up with everyone else wanting to be afforded equal opportunities as well, and that's less of a struggle than it is a temper tantrum.

 

[das_nut]

The only "white" struggle I see is the flip side of privilege. Due to historical factors in the US, whites tend to have a relatively high median standard of living compared to most other groups, and thus its easy to assume that all whites are relatively well off compared to other groups. While historically, that hasn't been the case - there are subgroups of white people who have faced severe discrimination in this country, whose descendants are still relatively poor.

 

[Spang]

Demetri Martin is a comedian. That quote is a joke, not meant to be taken seriously. A million apologies.

Also, to stay on topic, I recently read an article about "The Model Minority": Asian Americans:

The articles referenced here all make the important point that the model minority is a deceit, conjured up by Asian American civil rights leaders in the middle of the last century in order to secure the citizenship of Asians in the U.S. at a time when we were considered so indelibly foreign and dangerous that the Japanese were subjected to mass incarceration, while the Chinese were targeted by McCarthy-style anti-communist witch hunts.

To promote the myth, many unflattering facts of life in the Asian ghettos of the period were suppressed. Meanwhile, Asian American accomplishments in the arts, business, and, most of all, World War II were touted as indicators of Asians’ suitability for citizenship and ability to vertically integrate themselves into the white middle class.

 

[FortyTwo]

The only "white" struggle I see is the flip side of privilege. Due to historical factors in the US, whites tend to have a relatively high median standard of living compared to most other groups, and thus its easy to assume that all whites are relatively well off compared to other groups. While historically, that hasn't been the case - there are subgroups of white people who have faced severe discrimination in this country, whose descendants are still relatively poor.

Yeah, but the point is that they don't face that discrimination because they're white. It's because of another trait that is seen as detrimental by society.

 

[das_nut]

Yeah, but the point is that they don't face that discrimination because they're white. It's because of another trait that is seen as detrimental by society.

While I agree with "they don't face that discrimination because they're white", I think it goes further than that: Being white means society tends to engage in erasure of hardships.

It's the flip side of racism. Both the traditional racism and more modern, frequently liberal, racism.

 

[FortyTwo]

While I agree with "they don't face that discrimination because they're white", I think it goes further than that: Being white means society tends to engage in erasure of hardships.

It's the flip side of racism. Both the traditional racism and more modern, frequently liberal, racism.

Maybe if you go to a social justice community on Tumblr or something. In actual society, the media and people in general tend to emphasize hardships faced by white people and ignore hardships faced by everyone else. Kind-of like how intersectionality is just completely glossed over.

 

[Second Summer]

I don't believe a group has to experienced discrimination for it to have a unique "struggle" or unique experience.

It is something to be a white male, though I would think it can be substantially different from country to country.

This something consists of a set of many different "struggles" that collectively makes for a unique experience.

Btw, intersectionality ... I like that word. I'd think I belong to a fair few different marginalised groups.

 

[das_nut]

Maybe if you go to a social justice community on Tumblr or something. In actual society, the media and people in general tend to emphasize hardships faced by white people and ignore hardships faced by everyone else. Kind-of like how intersectionality is just completely glossed over.

Not in this country. Sure, we'll talk about the hardships faced by a certain class of people who tend to be privileged. Say higher taxes, cost of college, etc. Other people who may be part of a "privileged" class are basically invisible. Take the homeless - majority male, a privileged class, and they are practically ignored.

The news exists to sell advertising. The news demographic is a limited set of people. It tends to feature stories interested to those people. Those on the fringes are frequently ignored.

 

[rainforests1]

Ummmmmmm, have you heard of the Chinese being enslaved to build the railroads here? Or the Japanese-Americans being stripped of their goods and held prisoner in internment camps? How about the Mexican-Americans who pick the vegetables that you you eat, for pennies an hour, living in windowless trailers?

My daughter pointed out the other day that she was driving a few of her friends, one a Cuban guy, the other a mixed black/latin girl. They were pulled over for a faulty tail light, and the other two kids were amazed at how polite the cop was to my (white) daughter. Both said that their cars had been searched every time they have been stopped. Daughter got a verbal warning and a suggestion of where to get a light bulb for the car.

I recall reading about how poorly Americans were treated(all races) in the 1800's. If you didn't have money, life was very difficult. We could just keep going on about this.

 

[Clueless Git]

It's the flip side of racism. Both the traditional racism and more modern, frequently liberal, racism.

Flip side?

I've never been so confused since I met this chap who could turn one coin into a totaly different coin in mid air.

Amazing it was. He'd throw a coin in the air that had heads on it and one would come down that had tails.

 

[Yokel]

All I know is that the times I have felt unsafe around a particular guy, they have all been of white caucasian descent. Not to say that white caucasians are particularly dangerous, but I dont see a clean record there. So while there are inbuilt problems in societies which are a lot more patriarchal than the Western societies, I think that white people should focus on keeping their own laundry clean so to speak, before they will be able to be in the position to try and criticise other groups.

We are perfectly entitled to criticise other groups when they are living in our country and refuse to integrate into our secular society. In the case of Pakistani immigrants, second or third generation, the process of integration of has gone into reverse. The PC brigade looked the other way whilst those of Muslim cultural background (Pakistanis, Somalis etc) have deliberately targeted underage English girls trading them as 'white meat'. Even Labour MP Jack Straw belatedly recognised this.

The result is that these rape gangs got away with it for years and in several towns and cities in this country, whilst the indigenous population had no-one to turn to except the 'far-right'. This is not merely an English or a British problem. It has happened in Scandinavia where the 'infidel' native women are considered by these immigrants to be sexually available whores, viz the case in 2005 of an 18-year old Swedish woman who was gang-raped by four Somalis. The PC brigade as always look the other way ...

 

[Ann Chovie]

This is a serious question ..

I spoke on the phone to a black South African lady today who is a client . She was extremely well read and she was discussing black culture with me and several times mentioned a book she had read with " the N word" in the title and made other references to the word in general descriptions of events.


I Found myself stumbling as to how I should respond , particularly in instances when I wanted to refer back to the book. I found myself

"doing a Les Dawson"

and half mouthing the word in a kind of embarrassed whisper. I had no idea whether I was at liberty to freely use the word in company with her as she had or whether for me to use it was offensive.

Genuine question not meant to be offensive at all ..so apologies if it is! But..

What should I have done ?

 

[FortyTwo]

This is a serious question ..

I spoke on the phone to a black South African lady today who is a client . She was extremely well read and she was discussing black culture with me and several times mentioned a book she had read with " the N word" in the title and made other references to the word in general descriptions of events.


I Found myself stumbling as to how I should respond , particularly in instances when I wanted to refer back to the book. I found myself

"doing a Les Dawson"

and half mouthing the word in a kind of embarrassed whisper. I had no idea whether I was at liberty to freely use the word in company with her as she had or whether for me to use it was offensive.

Genuine question not meant to be offensive at all ..so apologies if it is! But..

What should I have done ?

First, just a polite reminder... referring to someone Black as "well-read" plays into a lot of nasty stereotypes and implies that being "well-read" isn't the norm for Black people, when you'd never point that out about a White person. I'm sure you meant well, just saying.

To address the question... I'd probably have just said "the book" myself.

 

[das_nut]

Is well-read the norm for white people now?

Crap, I really need to live where other people live.

 

[ledboots]

This is a serious question ..

I spoke on the phone to a black South African lady today who is a client . She was extremely well read and she was discussing black culture with me and several times mentioned a book she had read with " the N word" in the title and made other references to the word in general descriptions of events.


I Found myself stumbling as to how I should respond , particularly in instances when I wanted to refer back to the book. I found myself

"doing a Les Dawson"

and half mouthing the word in a kind of embarrassed whisper. I had no idea whether I was at liberty to freely use the word in company with her as she had or whether for me to use it was offensive.

Genuine question not meant to be offensive at all ..so apologies if it is! But..

What should I have done ?

If you're white, don't use the n word. You could just say "the book you were discussing" or just say "N" instead of the slur if you really have to. I've gone 55 years living in an integrated society and have never felt the need to say it.