Should we censor/avoid offensive words?

[Clueless Git]

I'd be happy to, that article was pure speculation and I wasn't at all impressed with it.

Best take up your grievance with the following also ..

http://www.africaresource.com/rasta...nal-meaning-of-the-n-word-by-pianke-nubiyang/

http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28269

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ngr

http://kamaumau.hubpages.com/hub/NGR-True-History-of-a-Banned-Word

http://blackhistory.tribe.net/thread/a94531d2-1077-42e4-9261-b6ce05bfe58d

http://www.assatashakur.org/forum/spirituality-connect-your-center/464-ngr-******.html

Let us know how you get on with putting these guys straight, please?

Just as a 'btw'. It is entirely possible that this word origin is speculative. It appears to be an immensely popular speculation amongst persons of African descent though.

I like the idea because if it is correct then it is another tool in the box that can be used to show those who use the N-word spitefully up as being dumb.

 

[Clueless Git]

Native Americans aren't really native to America. The indigenous peoples were here before America.

Before America was there the indigineous occupants must have been ... errr ... fish?

 

[Clueless Git]

Anyone can see that this isn't true by going back and reading the post.

Yes, yes, they could have done that.

Which provides a further example of irony for those who don't know what irony is ...

Maybe you should read the discussion before you jump into it.

According to the argument being made by some people here, I cannot judge if his opinion on the word is legitimate or not unless I know his race.

Which is rather racist.

Yes, yes, it is.

I'm beginning to think there's a plot afoot to fill this topic with irony untill it gets so heavy that it sinks.

 

[AeryFairy]

According to the argument being made by some people here, I cannot judge if his opinion on the word is legitimate or not unless I know his race.

Well, yes... Being a person of colour (or of a certain gender or sexuality and so forth) is kind of like having a particular expertise on the subject of words which are relevant to you as a part of those groups. Being directly affected by those words gives your opinion more authority. It's like having a degree or a successful career in that topic, because it's the life you live every day.

Imagine you were a doctor. Surely you'd expect your advice on medical matters to carry more weight than some dude with google who hadn't attended a day of medical school?

 

[Envy]

Bias will be a factor in any case.

 

[cornsail]

Well, yes... Being a person of colour (or of a certain gender or sexuality and so forth) is kind of like having a particular expertise on the subject of words which are relevant to you as a part of those groups. Being directly affected by those words gives your opinion more authority. It's like having a degree or a successful career in that topic, because it's the life you live every day.

Imagine you were a doctor. Surely you'd expect your advice on medical matters to carry more weight than some dude with google who hadn't attended a day of medical school?

So if I'm white and I hear another white person using the n-word should I withhold judgment?

 

[AeryFairy]

So if I'm white and I hear another white person using the n-word should I withhold judgment?

No; my post above was on talking over people who the word relates to. For example: I'm a woman. I appreciate and welcome help from guys who call other guys out on sexist crap. I do not appreciate a guy trying to tell me what is and isn't sexist, especially when they disregard my experiences and the experiences of other women.

If a white person hears another white person using the n-word, then the first white person is allowed to call the second white person out, knowing full well that it is an offensive term. As they are both white, they both have equal authority in cases of racism, so no 'talking over' has taken place. If a white person hears a black person using it, however, the white person shouldn't say anything.

(At least, this is how I have come to understand it. If any people of colour would like to correct me on this, please do.)

 

[das_nut]

My mistake.

So there's two people in this thread that don't know what Mischief is referring to.

I wonder if M is misremembering/misinterpreting what was in this thread.

 

[Clueless Git]

If a white person hears a black person using it, however, the white person shouldn't say anything.

Applying different rules/restrictions on what different races may or may not say is not racist, how?

 

[AeryFairy]

Applying different rules/restrictions on what different races may or may not say is not racist, how?

Because speaking over someone on a topic that directly relates to their experience as a person of colour is racism.

 

[Clueless Git]

Just a musing ...

M'ex of some 20 years, the mother of my 3 children, is a lady of significant colour. (Fijian father and, mixed race white/Afro-American mother)

She perceived pretty much anything that was not completely oblivious to her 'permanent tan' as racist.

Somewhat confusingly her hatred of other people of colour (a wide range of hues) was, still is, quite unpleasant behold.

Of my children two are dark skinned and one's a total 'honkey' like her dad.

M'two dark skinned kiddies share one thing with their mum; Anything apart from total obliviousness to skin colour puts them, to varying degrees, outside of their comfort zones.

 

[Clueless Git]

Because speaking over someone on a topic that directly relates to their experience as a person of colour is racism.

And applying different rules/restrictions on what different races may or may not say is not racist, how?

 

[AeryFairy]

I don't presume to know their experiences, and so couldn't possibly comment on that.

My opinion in terms of racism is informed mainly by listening to other people of colour and what their experiences are, as well as relating it to my own oppressions and their related -isms.

I will say that, in terms of any -ism which clearly exists in our society, it is a little naive to think that it goes away because we try to ignore it and pretend it doesn't exist.

 

[AeryFairy]

And applying different rules/restrictions on what different races may or may not say is not racist, how?

Because racism already exists, and ignoring it doesn't make it go away. In order to achieve equality we need justice, and in order to get justice for the damage done by racism, we have to acknowledge that white people are uniquely privileged and should perhaps shut up for once.

And, on that note, I am shutting up because it's really not my place to discuss matters of race, of which I have zero experience, and I have said probably far too much about it already.

I'll happily talk about sexist, queerphobic, or ableist terminology though.

 

[beancounter]

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[SummerRain]

Did anybody ever watch channel 4's "sticks and stones" (UK)? It was a documentary about So Solid Crew's rapped exploring the use of the n-word and if it's ever appropriate. It was actually really interesting, I watched it a long time ago, but I remember the guy (who frequently used the n-word) learning about the history of black people in slavery and the historical connotations of the word, and speaking to older black people and their experiences of the word, and he began to feel differently about his use of the word.

 

[cornsail]

No; my post above was on talking over people who the word relates to. For example: I'm a woman. I appreciate and welcome help from guys who call other guys out on sexist crap. I do not appreciate a guy trying to tell me what is and isn't sexist, especially when they disregard my experiences and the experiences of other women.

If a white person hears another white person using the n-word, then the first white person is allowed to call the second white person out, knowing full well that it is an offensive term. As they are both white, they both have equal authority in cases of racism, so no 'talking over' has taken place. If a white person hears a black person using it, however, the white person shouldn't say anything.

(At least, this is how I have come to understand it. If any people of colour would like to correct me on this, please do.)

I agree that it's not good to disregard people's experiences.

As a white male I have to form my own opinions on sexism and racism, though. I can't simply adopt "the black opinion" or "the female opinion" on something, because there is no "the black opinion" and there is no "the female opinion". I believe it's good to be informed by the views and experiences of others, but one's conclusions still must be one's own.

 

[Pirate]

I agree that it's not good to disregard people's experiences.

As a white male I have to form my own opinions on sexism and racism, though. I can't simply adopt "the black opinion" or "the female opinion" on something, because there is no "the black opinion" and there is no "the female opinion". I believe it's good to be informed by the views and experiences of others, but one's conclusions still must be one's own.

this is true. However, I think what Aeryfairy is saying is that the person the opinion is about's opinion will always trump yours.

wow that was badly worded, sorry

 

[cornsail]

An opinion about whether a behavior or word usage is acceptable is not an opinion about a person, though.

 

[Pirate]

^ Hey you were the one talking about opinions. It still stands though. If a black person finds a word racist, and you don't, since the word is related to them and not you, their opinion trumps yours.

Today my Dad was talking about the origin of the word n*gger (in a resteraunt, lovely). My first thought: "Is Clueless Git secretly my Dad?".