NSFW THE TRUMPOCALYPSE

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Mischief said:
:(

The article I cited earlier, about CA farmers who voted for dt now being concerned about losing their workforces, goes into some detail about how dependent the CA economy is on undocumented workers.

dt could really screw with CA big time, using immigration enforcement. I think he is perfectly capable of doing it out of spite.
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Kevin de Leon, the leader of the Senate, has been leading California on fighting against Trump's new policies.
Today he posted about our economy being affected by the raids, as well as the families that are being torn apart. He's trying to find out what happened to the people that were arrested, and posted what their rights are on his Facebook page for anyone who is arrested in the future. The disgusting, hate filled postings on his page have been non-stop since the beginning of the year.

He's suggesting everyone carry one of these cards.
Red Cards | Immigrant Legal Resource Center | ILRC
 
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Calliegirl said:
Kevin de Leon, the leader of the Senate, has been leading California on fighting against Trump's new policies.
Today he posted about our economy being affected by the raids, as well as the families that are being torn apart. He's trying to find out what happened to the people that were arrested, and posted what their rights are on his Facebook page for anyone who is arrested in the future. The disgusting, hate filled postings on his page have been non-stop since the beginning of the year.

He's suggesting everyone carry one of these cards.
Red Cards | Immigrant Legal Resource Center | ILRC
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Thinking about the people being deported, all those lives upended, so many living in fear - it's literally been making me feel sick. :(
 
Don't let them exhaust you. This has been one blow after another.

Here's an important link: 99 Ways to Fight Trump

Some highlights:

  • Don’t just complain to your friends, let Congress know how you feel. Often. When you disagree with them AND when you agree. Write Reps here & Senators here.
  • Donate to the ACLU, and help them fight back to defend our freedom.
  • Set a recurring weekly appointment in your calendar to contact Congress.
  • Make a special effort to reach out to people in groups who may feel especially targeted by Trump’s rhetoric and actions. Let them know they have support.
  • Attend the TOWN MEETINGS of US House Representatives and Senators. Dress up, come armed with facts, and bring a dozen friends.
  • EMAIL AND CALL SMARTLY: Don’t wear your partisanship on your sleeve, it makes you less effective. If you are calling about renewable energy say “America needs the jobs renewable energy brings and wind and solar entrepreneurs deserve our support”. If you are calling to push Congress to investigate Trump’s shady business deals, say “Congress has a moral responsibility to do this”. Quote the Bible, it carries weight with these gents.
  • Turn Facebook anger into real action. EVERY TIME you post an article or meme on Facebook bellyaching about team Trump, take a REAL action. Email an elected official or the White House.
  • Keep abreast with the latest Trump corruption with Corrupt.af
  • Add the phone numbers for your elected officials to your phone contacts, so you can speed dial them when you want to praise them or complain to them.
  • Don’t waste time arguing online with right-wing trolls/Trumpets. If you’re never going to convince them to change their minds, spend the time instead working to reach out to those persuadables in the middle, or helping to mobilize those already on our side.
  • Show your support for impeachment. He’s earned it.
  • Get ready to march again on April 15th
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For the record, I'm not quoting that to say that you should go just break the law or be haphazard in your resistance. What I am saying is that we may be facing a period of time soon (and, arguably, currently are facing a period of time) in which following the law will require you to do morally heinous things.

Perhaps more importantly, I'm also saying that, whether or not you personally are able to resist/are comfortable with resisting in a way that breaks the law, some peoples' resistance does involve breaking the law. For instance, the antifa who punched Richard Spencer was technically breaking the law. If you want to resist, regardless of what you're personally comfortable doing, it is your responsibility to make the call not to get in the way of this type of resistance, and not to throw those partaking in it under the bus. To follow the example of the aforementioned nazi punch: don't be one of the self-sabotaging liberals who tried to unmask the antifa protestor after the punch. If you can't be the one punching the nazis, be the one making the memes of the nazi punch.
 
I was thinking that now if there is a terrorist attack in the US, DT has the perfect excuse to not claim any responsibility. He can say that he tried to keep America safe, but that the courts overruled him. Clever.

I bet what he was doing (or pretending to do, as I'm sure he must have realised it was unconstitutional) goes over well with his core supporters too. I read that 49% of people agreed with the travel ban.49% of Americans agree with Trump's immigration ban - Business Insider

This probably sounds weird, but I also wonder if it is to do with his sleeping patterns, if he only sleeps for 5 hours a night he has lots of extra time to plan and strategise. Apparently, Margaret Thatcher only slept 4 hours a night.
 
I don't think dt thinks the travel ban is unconstitutional. In fact, it may be found not to be.

The issue of its constitutionality has not been determined - not by the trial judge, and not by the 9th circuit in the decision handed down yesterday, which was in fact limited in its scope to a couple of procedural issues. It is not unusual for a case to wend its way up to SCOTUS and back down again and the back up again to SCOTUS before SCOTUS ever makes a decision on the substance at the heart of the case.

All that the 9th circuit determined yesterday was that the trial court's stay of implementation of the EO was to remain in effect pending resolution of the underlying case.

It should also be noted that the 9th circuit is by far the most liberal of the federal courts of appeal*, and there is far from a guarantee that SCOTUS would/will find in a similar manner.

*There's an effort underway by the GOP to do some judicial redistricting, in order to break up the 9th circuit, which they have long found to be a thorn in their sides.
 
Moll Flanders said:
I was thinking that now if there is a terrorist attack in the US, DT has the perfect excuse to not claim any responsibility. He can say that he tried to keep America safe, but that the courts overruled him. Clever.

I bet what he was doing (or pretending to do, as I'm sure he must have realised it was unconstitutional) goes over well with his core supporters too. I read that 49% of people agreed with the travel ban.49% of Americans agree with Trump's immigration ban - Business Insider

This probably sounds weird, but I also wonder if it is to do with his sleeping patterns, if he only sleeps for 5 hours a night he has lots of extra time to plan and strategise. Apparently, Margaret Thatcher only slept 4 hours a night.
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I feel exactly the same way. Was just saying this to a friend two days ago.
 
The thing is Trump would blame the courts for overruling his order and causing a terrorist attack way before any evidence was in. Even after evidence came in suggesting that in any case the terrorist was from a country not affected by the country, or had been in the country for years, he might still keep pushing his argument.

Not convinced on the postcards idea. It's not like Trump is going to pay any attention. You'd be better off targeting the voters, moderate Republicans, independents, and others. You may as well as send a postcard to a pig farm telling them to produce carrots instead. It's not going to work until the populace refuses to allow pig cruelty and starts demanding more carrots.

As to breaking the law, I'd say that (at least in 99% of cases, not sure about the punching incident) we are not at the stage where this is needed, however being intellectually aware that this should be considered if things get worse is a good idea. However, in my view, things would have to get much worse which is fairly unlikely.
 
Will be interesting to see what happens in the next election. Personally, I don't see Trump resigning within the next 4 years. He may chose not to stand in 4 years if things go badly or he doesn't like the job but I can't see him walking out this year or something.

I can't see him being impeached either. With Republicans in control of the government, it's hard to see how that could happen without some REALLY damaging allegation.

So, I think the focus ought to be not trying to magically hope Trump gets impeached or resigns but realistically playing the long game here, and trying to ensure that the grass roots support builds up ahead of the next Presidential election in 4 years (and I'm assuming there are house and/or senate elections in 2 years also). Will be interesting to see how the next election plays out.

Will the far right people who never voted last time because they didn't believe any candidate would truly deliver on truly right wing policies turn out in greater numbers for Trump now that they see he is actually doing his best to meet a lot of his policies (based on initial evidence). I saw some people interviewed that basically seemed to me voted for Trump even though they suspected he wouldn't deliver, just because he was the only prospect of the kind of change they wanted. People like that are going to be energized to vote for him more than ever.

On the other hand, the people that didn't vote last time because they didn't like Hillary, or because they aren't generally political, but sort of regretted it after seeing Trump win, more of those could vote. While others might be driven to vote democrat as a result of the building up of this protest movement.

I could see the country swinging way back to the left/centre in 4 or 8 years if only the Democrats can both get their act together as a party and get a good Presidential candidate.
 
Jamie in Chile said:
The thing is Trump would blame the courts for overruling his order and causing a terrorist attack way before any evidence was in. Even after evidence came in suggesting that in any case the terrorist was from a country not affected by the country, or had been in the country for years, he might still keep pushing his argument.
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This is exactly why we can't worry about 'giving the other side ammo' with actions like protests, riots, etc. They are more than willing to just make **** up and trot it around as though it were real and substantiated.

Not convinced on the postcards idea. It's not like Trump is going to pay any attention. You'd be better off targeting the voters, moderate Republicans, independents, and others. You may as well as send a postcard to a pig farm telling them to produce carrots instead. It's not going to work until the populace refuses to allow pig cruelty and starts demanding more carrots.
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Normally I'd agree but amazingly enough I think we're in a position where the current president actually does get into little ego fits when people disagree with him en masse or do things that annoy him. The difference in attendance between his inauguration and the women's march ****** him off to no end, and he does things like complain about SNL on Twitter and post about things that were on Fox News five minutes beforehand in terms that blatantly mirror what was just said. Postcards might actually work with him.

As to breaking the law, I'd say that (at least in 99% of cases, not sure about the punching incident) we are not at the stage where this is needed, however being intellectually aware that this should be considered if things get worse is a good idea. However, in my view, things would have to get much worse which is fairly unlikely.
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I'm just gonna real quick repost the article Andy_T posted back on page 52:


We are definitely at the stage where someone breaking the law is needed to keep innocent people safe. The riots at UC Berkeley are a more robust example than Spencer getting clocked - Milo Ybfenhkgkjhs was going to read a list of undocumented students' names, on campus, in front of a crowd of gleefully public white supremacists. People rioted, hard, because broken glass and dumpster fires gets the point across a lot more clearly than peaceful protests - the point being, if you come here we will make you regret it. People like you aren't welcome here and you don't get to put innocent people in danger like that. They broke the law, they made the world a better place.

If the early warning signs are any indication we are very uneasily teetering on the edge of a world that will require this kind of resistance en masse to prevent things from getting even worse. Now is the time to act, while it's still not too late, basically.
 
Jamie in Chile said:
The thing is Trump would blame the courts for overruling his order and causing a terrorist attack way before any evidence was in. Even after evidence came in suggesting that in any case the terrorist was from a country not affected by the country, or had been in the country for years, he might still keep pushing his argument.

Not convinced on the postcards idea. It's not like Trump is going to pay any attention. You'd be better off targeting the voters, moderate Republicans, independents, and others. You may as well as send a postcard to a pig farm telling them to produce carrots instead. It's not going to work until the populace refuses to allow pig cruelty and starts demanding more carrots.
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I agree 100% on the first paragraph.

As to the postcard idea - I think that stuff like this really pisses dt off, and frankly, that's cathartic for me.

I'm doing all the other stuff as well, but sometimes, it's good to do something that's simply fun, especially in these times.
 
Jamie in Chile said:
Will be interesting to see what happens in the next election. Personally, I don't see Trump resigning within the next 4 years. He may chose not to stand in 4 years if things go badly or he doesn't like the job but I can't see him walking out this year or something.

I can't see him being impeached either. With Republicans in control of the government, it's hard to see how that could happen without some REALLY damaging allegation.

So, I think the focus ought to be not trying to magically hope Trump gets impeached or resigns but realistically playing the long game here, and trying to ensure that the grass roots support builds up ahead of the next Presidential election in 4 years (and I'm assuming there are house and/or senate elections in 2 years also). Will be interesting to see how the next election plays out.

Will the far right people who never voted last time because they didn't believe any candidate would truly deliver on truly right wing policies turn out in greater numbers for Trump now that they see he is actually doing his best to meet a lot of his policies (based on initial evidence). I saw some people interviewed that basically seemed to me voted for Trump even though they suspected he wouldn't deliver, just because he was the only prospect of the kind of change they wanted. People like that are going to be energized to vote for him more than ever.

On the other hand, the people that didn't vote last time because they didn't like Hillary, or because they aren't generally political, but sort of regretted it after seeing Trump win, more of those could vote. While others might be driven to vote democrat as a result of the building up of this protest movement.

I could see the country swinging way back to the left/centre in 4 or 8 years if only the Democrats can both get their act together as a party and get a good Presidential candidate.
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Nothing you're saying is really incorrect, but at the same time, I find it hard to look at this as conventional politics the way you are. I'm not hoping the cheeto magically resigns or gets impeached - I am seeking to actively force him into one of those two things, through whatever methods necessary. I'm not interested in swinging moderate voters, I'm interested in unifying the Left and crumbling the opposition, forcing them into disgrace - again, through whatever methods necessary.

I don't want to gently convince white supremacists not to vote the cheeto back in, because history shows they are not willing to do that. I want to make them legitimately afraid to vote the cheeto back in, if it's even possible to do so at that point.
 
With respect to what's effective, and what's not, let's talk about the marches. I'm marching, and will continue to march, not because it's going to make dt and the rest of the GOP do things any differently, but because:

1. It pisses dt off. I have enough experience with narcissists to know how thin skinned they are. dt is the epitome of a narcissist, and he is extraordinarily thin skinned.

2. I want marginalized groups to know that there are people who are standing with them. That's why I felt it was even more important to participate in the refugee/immigrant/Muslim march than the woman's march.

3. I want to keep reiterating to the people who were apathetic during the election or who generally do not pay much attention to public affairs that this is not normal, this is not acceptable.

4. It's also a way of reminding people who didn't vote or dt that this is not over, that a substantial number of us are going to continue to fight, and thus to minimize their tendency to resign themselves.
 
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Mischief said:
With respect to what's effective, and what's not, let's talk about the marches. I'm marching, and will continue to march, not because it's going to make dt and the rest of the GOP do things any differently, but because:

1. It pisses dt off. I have enough experience with narcissists to know how thin skinned they are. dt is the epitome of a narcissist, and he is extraordinarily thin skinned.

2. I want marginalized groups to know that there are people who are standing with them. That's why I felt it was even more important to participate in the refugee/immigrant/Muslim march than the woman's march.

3. I want to keep reiterating to the people who were apathetic during the election or who generally do not pay much attention to public affairs that this is not normal, this is not acceptable.

4. It's also a way of reminding people who didn't vote or dt that this is not over, that a substantial number of us are going to continue to fight, and thus to minimize their tendency to resign themselves.
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So much this. It's important to remember that not only are we not dealing with a traditional politician right now, we are part of a public outcry larger than basically any in modern American history. Maybe the closest in recent memory was the Vietnam War, but only barely.

Inundation is key here. Political activists who have been working with this type of thing for years are almost uniformly saying that. Sheer numbers frighten politicians. They are not used to this kind of involvement from the public, and they recognize the threat to their careers being horrifying people poses now.

If you live in a red state or have Republican representatives, write to them (snail mail) as constantly as you can. Be civil, but firm. Don't let them think they can get away with aligning themselves with the current administration. Stress that this isn't a partisan squabble and focus on specific issues. Tell them that politicians who support the cheeto are losing voters by the hundreds (they are) and that whether or not they tolerate the current administration is a crucial piece of your image of them. Threaten to **** talk them and make them lose voters. They'll listen, even if they're not good people, because this is genuinely a threat to their livelihood.
 
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