Day three of vegan supper and I found a shockingly good result, I decided to do a massive (3qt) micro greens salad but of course my three favorite toppings were off the list as I could not have blue cheese dressing, smoked herring, or my favorite aged Parmesan cheese, so I experimented and made my own savory dressing and it exceeded even my wildest expectations. 1/3 cup of French lintels cooked with half a cup of portabella mushrooms, 1/4 large red onion, 2 cloves of garlic, and spiced with a Italian spices and a pinch of crushed hot peppers. Then whipped with two tablespoons of apple cider vinegar, a tablespoon of both pumpkin seed oil and EV olive oil into a thick creamy dressing. Top the salad with avacado, diced red onion, and tosted sunflower seeds and wow...just wow good. Not even kidding the best salad that I have ever had and despite it's huge size and abundant toppings comes in just under 700 cal by my math. The dressing had savory, spicy, and nutty accents like a really good hummus does and I will be experementing much more with that in the near future.
Trying again
- Thread starter Luke
- Start date
@Emma JC lol at Starchivore. That would be me, too. The only reason I try not to go overboard is because as far as breads and other starches go, it's what I put on it that's too high calorie for me...Miyoko's butter, Tofutti cream cheese, Vegenaise.
Pasta, potatoes and rice are easy but again, I want butter or cheese and even tomato sauce on pasta is a problem because I have reflux and I can't have too many tomato based dishes.I am my own worst enemy lol.
you're so right @KLS52 - it is what people put on the starches that causes the weight gains / fat build up and I am pretty careful about that which is why I can eat so many starches - I rarely use butter on breads, only peanut butter or jam - potatoes when air fried get malt vinegar - gravy or Swiss Chalet dipping sauce when boiled - pasta is either spagh sauce or a tiny amount of olive oil in the sauted veggies that go on it - I use hummus instead of cream cheese or vegenaise and find using cheez shreds allows me to get the taste / texture without the huge slices of it so pizza works out okay too - and use a lot of nutritional yeast instead of cheez in general
Emma JC
Find your vegan soulmate or just a friend. www.spiritualmatchmaking.com
that sounds interesting @Luke and so happy you enjoyed it, the load of micro greens are amazing - my comment would be that approx 240 calories of your 700 were straight oil and the avacado would have added even more fat, depending if you ate a whole one or not (there are approx 240 calories in a whole avacado) - if you cut back on the oils you could have added a lot of potato or rice etc and there is fibre in starches whereas oil has zero fibre - there are amazing sauce recipes out there that are low fat and high in taste - even some tahini mixed with vinegar and some hummus would be better as there is lots of fibre in tahini and hummus - feeling 'full' is one of the keys to eating less fat and piling in the veggies and starches and beans is a great way to do that with a nice sauce
this picture is always in the back of my mind...
Keep up the great work and I am sure you will find a balance that works for you.
Emma JC
Find your vegan soulmate or just a friend. www.spiritualmatchmaking.com
Very true that was mostly fat calories but the dozen cups of greens combined with the lintels, seeds, and that same avocado is already way more fiber than the average American gets in a full day just from one meal and even more than my lintel stir fry the day before although the stir fry was higher in resistant starch which also feeds the gut microbes so call that one a draw. Fiber, fat and protein all play a part in buffering glucose spikes which is why I don't make any vegan dish without a high protein component and at leased a little bit of healthy fats. Linteals and beans are high in both fiber and protein so they are a natural fit for me to cook with although beans take considerably longer so I tend to make them on my off days.that sounds interesting @Luke and so happy you enjoyed it, the load of micro greens are amazing - my comment would be that approx 240 calories of your 700 were straight oil and the avacado would have added even more fat, depending if you ate a whole one or not (there are approx 240 calories in a whole avacado) - if you cut back on the oils you could have added a lot of potato or rice etc and there is fibre in starches whereas oil has zero fibre - there are amazing sauce recipes out there that are low fat and high in taste - even some tahini mixed with vinegar and some hummus would be better as there is lots of fibre in tahini and hummus - feeling 'full' is one of the keys to eating less fat and piling in the veggies and starches and beans is a great way to do that with a nice sauce
this picture is always in the back of my mind...
Keep up the great work and I am sure you will find a balance that works for you.
Emma JC
Find your vegan soulmate or just a friend. www.spiritualmatchmaking.com
Vegan supper day 4, tried making that same dressing from last night a bit leaner/thicker to do some stuffed peppers, first time I have ever tried to stuff peppers without cheese. The lower fat content made the peppers a bit spicier than normal but I am Cajun I can take the heat, overall it was good but not as awe inspiring as last night's salad. Around 500 cal and my dessert is still in the oven, a large sweet potato cut into fries which I will top with cinnamon which should get me up to my 700-800cal goal. No major side effects as of yet except some weird nighttime leg cramps, going to take a double dose of my magnesium supplements to see if I can prevent them tonight, my left calf muscle has been killing me all day. No blood glucose issues yet, thus far I have been able to keep my fiber, fat, protein high enough to prevent any major spikes/drops despite my relatively high carb intake which I am thrilled with, last time I tried vegan I was on the ragged edge far too often.
Over the next few days if I can resolve my issues with the cramps I am going to try to start doing a vegan breakfast as well and start pushing my boundaries as to how low I can go.
No issues with the taste of the food, yeah I am having to relearn how to cook some things all over again but the notion that vegan food is bland and lifeless is clearly BS, I am rather enjoying it missteps and all.
Over the next few days if I can resolve my issues with the cramps I am going to try to start doing a vegan breakfast as well and start pushing my boundaries as to how low I can go.
No issues with the taste of the food, yeah I am having to relearn how to cook some things all over again but the notion that vegan food is bland and lifeless is clearly BS, I am rather enjoying it missteps and all.
You are a perfect example of why I hesitate to recommend food choices!
Eating vegan isn't any different from any other way of eating. We all have different preferences
Did you really eat that much of micogreens? Or did you mean more like the spring mix? I've never had more than a sprinkling on greens
Eating vegan isn't any different from any other way of eating. We all have different preferences
Did you really eat that much of micogreens? Or did you mean more like the spring mix? I've never had more than a sprinkling on greens
No it is not entirly what I would call true microgreens but it is very young greens for sure and some of them I would absolutely classify as microgreens. I like getting a very wide variety of plant fibers in my diet so I like these kinds of variety packs. When I cook my beans and greens I have a mix of 15 different kinds of beans that I use and cook them with four different greens so I get a very broad spectrum. I wanted to grow a garden last year to increase it further but I found out that my soil is way too sandy to hold mosture in the Texas summer heat, thinking of building either a hydroponic or aquaponic system both of which I have experience running at my previous agriculture position at the prison.
Lou
Forum Legend
First off, reading about your little successes have been a breath of fresh air. So many newcomers here are either resistant to change, or uninterested in our advice.
I hate to admit it but I had to look up micro greens - I didn't know what they were. Now I want to get some. since I don't have a garden, I'll have to look for them in the store.
Do you buy your 15 different kinds of beans in a mix. or do you buy 15 kinds of beans.
There used to be a restaurant I would go to that had the Best seven bean soup. I once bought one of those mixes and tried to recreate it but it didn't work. Now I'm spurred to try it again. Any tips or tricks or recipe I should try?
maybe before you invest in hydroponics or aquaponics, you might try fixing up your sandy soil.
I'm not a gardener but it seems like adding compost to your sandy soil should be an easy fix. Maybe building some of those planter boxes for your garden. Also might be fun to do some composing in your backyard.
www.gardeningknowhow.com
also I thought maybe growing micro greens indoors might be a good solution for us.
www.gardeningknowhow.com
I hate to admit it but I had to look up micro greens - I didn't know what they were. Now I want to get some. since I don't have a garden, I'll have to look for them in the store.
Do you buy your 15 different kinds of beans in a mix. or do you buy 15 kinds of beans.
There used to be a restaurant I would go to that had the Best seven bean soup. I once bought one of those mixes and tried to recreate it but it didn't work. Now I'm spurred to try it again. Any tips or tricks or recipe I should try?
maybe before you invest in hydroponics or aquaponics, you might try fixing up your sandy soil.
I'm not a gardener but it seems like adding compost to your sandy soil should be an easy fix. Maybe building some of those planter boxes for your garden. Also might be fun to do some composing in your backyard.
Sandy Soil Amendments: How To Do Sandy Soil Improvements
If you live in a sandy area, you know that it can be difficult to grow plants in sand. Soil amendments can help improve sandy soil so that you can grow more plants in your garden. Here is more information.
www.gardeningknowhow.com
also I thought maybe growing micro greens indoors might be a good solution for us.
Sandy Soil Amendments: How To Do Sandy Soil Improvements
If you live in a sandy area, you know that it can be difficult to grow plants in sand. Soil amendments can help improve sandy soil so that you can grow more plants in your garden. Here is more information.
www.gardeningknowhow.com
A co worker is starting a little microgreen business and I've gotten a few samples. The taste of most is so strong I would only be able to have a sprinkle on a bowl of spring greens, or on a salad. They seem very easy to grow-she does all indoors with trays on shelving and lights
I'd try but I have no where the cats wouldn't get them
I do sprouts now again, in jars
You really do sound like you're finding your groove!
Yeah I am far from resistant to change, I might not line up with cookie cutter vegan dogma but thanks to my medical condition I have studied nutrition enough to know that eating a pound of processed, mass produced meat a day every day is a genuinely horrid idea. There might be half a dozen people on the planet with such severe reactions to lectins, oxolates, and phytic acid that they need less vegetables but for the other 99.99% reducing meat and increasing vegetables/grains/legumes/seeds would be of a significant benefit, this much is abundantly clear. Sure humans evolved eating some animals that much is certain but it was an occasional thing not all day every day, go hiking in a truly wild place and see how many wild animals get within 30 yards of you, that is about the effective range of a primitive bow, I would know I have done that before, even with high tech camouflage and scent blockers it is no easy task, so I don't think primitive man built his survival around such dumb luck. The issue is that since factory farming meat has become so ingrained in our cooking and culture that it is hard to learn to live without it or even reduce it while maintaining a healthy diet. Some abstain for ethical reasons only to turn to highly processed foods which can be just as bad if not worse health wise, I have family that have gone down this route so I have seen it first hand, being "vegetarian" or "vegan" by itself means very little when your joints and spine fail you in your 50s or in my cousin's case in her 30s, so in a way I am glad I cannot eat processed carbs and sugar because of what I see them doing to people, at leased with me the effects are within an hour and memorably bad, others get damaged for years and don't even know it until their bones begin to crumble and their doctor has them on 16 medications just so they can sit up in their wheelchair. Junk food has been an absolute plague in my family.First off, reading about your little successes have been a breath of fresh air. So many newcomers here are either resistant to change, or uninterested in our advice.
I hate to admit it but I had to look up micro greens - I didn't know what they were. Now I want to get some. since I don't have a garden, I'll have to look for them in the store.
Do you buy your 15 different kinds of beans in a mix. or do you buy 15 kinds of beans.
There used to be a restaurant I would go to that had the Best seven bean soup. I once bought one of those mixes and tried to recreate it but it didn't work. Now I'm spurred to try it again. Any tips or tricks or recipe I should try?
maybe before you invest in hydroponics or aquaponics, you might try fixing up your sandy soil.
I'm not a gardener but it seems like adding compost to your sandy soil should be an easy fix. Maybe building some of those planter boxes for your garden. Also might be fun to do some composing in your backyard.
Sandy Soil Amendments: How To Do Sandy Soil Improvements
If you live in a sandy area, you know that it can be difficult to grow plants in sand. Soil amendments can help improve sandy soil so that you can grow more plants in your garden. Here is more information.
also I thought maybe growing micro greens indoors might be a good solution for us.
Sandy Soil Amendments: How To Do Sandy Soil Improvements
If you live in a sandy area, you know that it can be difficult to grow plants in sand. Soil amendments can help improve sandy soil so that you can grow more plants in your garden. Here is more information.
I mix my beans myself, go to the store and if they have a different kind of bean I try it out and if I like it I add it to the bean tub, black beans and chick peas are still my favorite and are represented well in the tub but I have a wide variety, there is a pre made mixed bean bag at Walmart but I have never tried it, I think it is 15 bean as well but they have some that I don't use like great northern.
I have tried bags of organic material to enrich the sandy soil to no avail, this stuff is so light and airy that I sink about an inch and a half into it just walking across and you could dig a hole with a leaf blower. Locally this is called sugar sand and I have never seen it anywhere else before, very different from the sand we have in the western desert region.
Oh yeah and day 5 vegen supper was a medium salad (6 cup aprox) with two sweet potatoes sliced and baked with cinnamon and a handful of walnuts on top, I had forgoten how much I loved toasted walnuts. Nothing really groundbreaking tonight because I am running low on fresh produce to work with until I can make a trip into town this weekend, I did not exactly plan ahead for this little adventure it was just kind of a wild idea that stuck.
Weird day, I found myself having bizarre memory lapses, co-workers that I speak to every day I forgot their names momentarily as well as other important details like what time the unit calls count. I have heard other people in the keto community talk about "grain brain" but this is the first time that I think I have experienced it, hopefully that is a one off thing because it is dang awkward, thankfully it only lasted a couple hours. Could just be a fluke or maybe I have not been sleeping really well this week so I am going to continue on.
Did my first vegan specific shopping trip after work today, picked up plenty of veggies and some seasonings that I needed for further experimentation. Went looking for some vegan yogurt and I did find some coconut based dairy free but the sugar content was UNREAL! 24 grams of added sugar in a tiny half cup serving, that is a whole day's worth in just a few bites, or if you need a visual that is as much sugar as is in five to six average sweet potatoes, anything that requires that much sugar to make palatable is probably not fit for human consumption so I went with a soy milk instead for my oats which is still has twice the sugar of my Greek yogurt but still pretty tame in small doses (9gr/cup) also got some firm and extra firm tofu to experiment with, might do a vegan burger and some curry this weekend.
Did my first vegan specific shopping trip after work today, picked up plenty of veggies and some seasonings that I needed for further experimentation. Went looking for some vegan yogurt and I did find some coconut based dairy free but the sugar content was UNREAL! 24 grams of added sugar in a tiny half cup serving, that is a whole day's worth in just a few bites, or if you need a visual that is as much sugar as is in five to six average sweet potatoes, anything that requires that much sugar to make palatable is probably not fit for human consumption so I went with a soy milk instead for my oats which is still has twice the sugar of my Greek yogurt but still pretty tame in small doses (9gr/cup) also got some firm and extra firm tofu to experiment with, might do a vegan burger and some curry this weekend.
Changing what you eat is a gut biome adjustment, so give it time.
Be sure to drink extra water if you've upped your fiber! Often I'll find myself feeling tired, or foggy on Sundays and realize I just need a glass of water! Other days of the week I'm regimented
My favorite store bought yogurt was Silk plain soy, or vanilla. I make it now in the Instant Pot, but it is thinner than bought.
If you have a Trader Joes they have shelf stable soy milk that's just beans and water. WestSoy also has one. I know Walmart sells it, but here it's only in 2 quart containers. TJ's is one quart/liter
Since I have pletny to cook with I have been eating almost streight vegan since my last update, haveing another weird reaction, no matter how much I eat I feel hungry, not sure if this is due to the lack of animal protein or the introduction of soy. I have gone years without any now I did three meals in a row with soy milk or tofu, getting plenty of water, enough electrolytes, enough calories, and tons of fiber so this does not make any sense. Anyone else have this kind of reaction? I am pretty sure I did not get this last time.
Lou
Forum Legend
As I've regularly said here at the VF, cravings even hunger are very unreliable.
If you are getting enough to eat, just try to ignore them.
I understand some gut bacteria will actually produce chemicals that can fool your brain to that it thinks you are hungry,.
If you are getting enough to eat, just try to ignore them.
I understand some gut bacteria will actually produce chemicals that can fool your brain to that it thinks you are hungry,.
Your gut microbiome could be telling your brain when you are hungry | BBC Science Focus Magazine
Researchers found a specific compound, released by bacteria in the gut, that can be detected by the area of the brain that controls our hunger, thirst, hormones and more.
www.sciencefocus.com
Hello, I don't know much about this problem but when I took out animal-based foods I did so gradually, since I was shopping and cooking for a houseful of omnivores at the time. I didn't even think about it at first as a complete transition to veganism; I just wanted to get away from the animal-based foods as much as possible, at the time, and I started out by experimenting with altering the recipes everyone was already familiar with.
My situation was also different because I hadn't ever used the meats you are used to. I was raised with a lot of dairy, eggs and some poultry and occasional fish. Soymilk originally helped me transition away from dairy (although I don't need it anymore), and the rest was pretty easy.
I've heard that when people take large doses of vitamin C and suddenly stop they can get a kind of 'rebound' scurvy. I don't know why, something about the sudden change I guess. I wonder if something like that can happen with other dietary components? If you went back to a more gradual transition, as some other members have suggested, would that help? At least using up any of your non-vegan salad dressing or other perishables would be better than tossing them, in my opinion. The thing is, you've made progress and shown yourself how many options you have. I've read of some people throwing up their hands and going back to old habits if they hit a bump in the road. I feel like it's better to stay on a steady path than to walk away from the progress you've made. It may take time for your microbiome to catch up to your choices, but it will.
I wonder if we took a poll here, how many people on this forum went 100% plants-only in one month or less? For many people, it is a back-and-forth for a while--trying vegetarianism, for example, or finding alternatives to dairy first, then realizing you don't need chicken either, etc. In hindsight, lots of people wish they could've transitioned faster, and I'm sure lots of people have managed that quite well. Sadly, though, some of those who start to see it as an all-or-nothing situation, could end up throwing in the towel. That's what I'd be sad to see.
Some people have a theory that amino acids play a role in satiety, and will even take amino acids to curb appetite-- which seems a bit risky, to me. (in fact I know someone who's done that and I think it may be the source of some of their new 'mysterious' health issues but I digress). I don't know if there is anything to that, but it seems at least possible that going from getting 500% of the RDA for protein down to 200% of the RDA for protein could be a bit of a shock if the change is very sudden.
Out of curiosity, are you taking other supplements besides the B12?
Have you checked out nutrient tracking tools like Cronometer? It may be interesting to compare what you were doing before to what you are doing now. That might provide some good motivation, in fact-- to see how much progress you've made.
Also, off topic, and you don't have to answer (obviously), but do you know what the pay rate is for the prisoners where you work? Just curious . . .
My situation was also different because I hadn't ever used the meats you are used to. I was raised with a lot of dairy, eggs and some poultry and occasional fish. Soymilk originally helped me transition away from dairy (although I don't need it anymore), and the rest was pretty easy.
I've heard that when people take large doses of vitamin C and suddenly stop they can get a kind of 'rebound' scurvy. I don't know why, something about the sudden change I guess. I wonder if something like that can happen with other dietary components? If you went back to a more gradual transition, as some other members have suggested, would that help? At least using up any of your non-vegan salad dressing or other perishables would be better than tossing them, in my opinion. The thing is, you've made progress and shown yourself how many options you have. I've read of some people throwing up their hands and going back to old habits if they hit a bump in the road. I feel like it's better to stay on a steady path than to walk away from the progress you've made. It may take time for your microbiome to catch up to your choices, but it will.
I wonder if we took a poll here, how many people on this forum went 100% plants-only in one month or less? For many people, it is a back-and-forth for a while--trying vegetarianism, for example, or finding alternatives to dairy first, then realizing you don't need chicken either, etc. In hindsight, lots of people wish they could've transitioned faster, and I'm sure lots of people have managed that quite well. Sadly, though, some of those who start to see it as an all-or-nothing situation, could end up throwing in the towel. That's what I'd be sad to see.
Some people have a theory that amino acids play a role in satiety, and will even take amino acids to curb appetite-- which seems a bit risky, to me. (in fact I know someone who's done that and I think it may be the source of some of their new 'mysterious' health issues but I digress). I don't know if there is anything to that, but it seems at least possible that going from getting 500% of the RDA for protein down to 200% of the RDA for protein could be a bit of a shock if the change is very sudden.
Out of curiosity, are you taking other supplements besides the B12?
Have you checked out nutrient tracking tools like Cronometer? It may be interesting to compare what you were doing before to what you are doing now. That might provide some good motivation, in fact-- to see how much progress you've made.
Also, off topic, and you don't have to answer (obviously), but do you know what the pay rate is for the prisoners where you work? Just curious . . .
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Lou
Forum Legend
Not a real thing.
So if it doesn't happen with vitamin C maybe it doesn't happen with anything?
I think he is past that. Now it's just a matter of becoming more accustomed to the new diet.
Yeah I don't think there is anything to that theory too.
No one should be taking 5x or even 2X the recommended intake of protein. 2X is probably ok but 5X is probably toxic. Best goal is to take no more than you need.
Excess protein is not stored but broken down for energy. And the metabolism of protein releases toxins into your bloodstream which puts a strain on liver and kidneys
I agree that it would be worthwhile to find a soymilk that doesn't have added sugar. It's odd that your market offers an unsweetened almond milk but no unsweetened soy milk. If you could let the management know there is a market for it, they might consider stocking it.
If you have preexisting glucose problems, I'd not think you could afford all that added sugar. I'm not diabetic and I wouldn't want a sweetened soymilk. I know some folks (omnivores) with blood sugar issues, and I get the impression that blood sugar lows (like a dip hours after a meal?) can contribute to brain-fog problems.
If you can talk to a dietician or other healthcare professional about the blood sugar issue, that would be ideal. Since you've already had some serious scares with that (like in 2008 like you said), no one needs to tell you that it's very important to keep tabs on that.
The long fasts at work may not be too good for the blood sugar situation, either. I don't know if your doctor would have any suggestions about that.
If you don't get a meal break at your job, does that mean you are eating exactly two meals a day with no snacks?
By the way, have you heard of tempeh and natto? Have you tried edamame? They have pretty low glycemic indexes, even lower than, say, garbanzo beans.
If you are feeling adventurous, you can learn to grow your own homemade tempeh. Not too difficult once you get the hang of it. If I can manage it, anyone can. Lots of bloggers out there writing about it.
Re: diabetes
@Lou linked to this website in another thread. You may find it useful:
Diabetes Support Groups
Getting an initial diagnosis of diabetes (whether Type 1, Type 2, gestational, or other) can be a pretty traumatic experience. Many healthcare providers will refer you to a diabetes class or a diab…
adventistvegetariandiabetics.com
It sounds like your motivation for your strict vegetarianism is to improve your health? Is weight loss also a goal?
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I just saw your thread. Since you've gone quiet, I'm assuming that you went back to eating animals. I just wanted to direct you to some information you might find useful, in case you want to give veganism another try.
Dr. Neal Barnard, M.D., has an excellent book on treating diabetes through diet, titled "Dr. Neal Barnard's Program for Reversing Diabetes". It talks about research that shows that the real cause of diabetes is fat, not sugar. In other words, sensitivity to sugar is the symptom; the cause is eating too much fat. If you switch to a low-fat plant-based diet, then over time, as the fat in your cells gets used up by your body, your blood sugar will stabilize, and you will be able to eat foods you couldn't tolerate before. In the book, Dr. Barnard gives precise instructions for how to go about switching to a plant-based diet. If you prefer videos to books, you can start with this one:
When you switch to a new way of eating, it's normal to feel very hungry at first. That is caused by your gut bacteria adjusting to your new diet, and it's temporary. If you are eating enough calories, then, with time, you will no longer feel hungry all the time. In fact, the opposite will happen; you will find that you are satisfied with eating healthy quantities of healthy foods.
From many of the things you've written, I suspect that you were probably not eating enough calories. Many people who try to go vegan make this mistake. Animal products are very high in fat and therefore calories. As a vegan, you have to eat a lot more. Salads and greens are extremely low in calories and will simply not be enough. You really have to load up on healthy starches like potatoes, sweet potatoes, brown rice, whole-wheat bread, and whole-wheat pasta, which are more calorie-dense. Your moments of mental confusion were probably caused by not getting enough calories.
I do hope you will give veganism another try. It is a very peaceful and compassionate way to live, and in turn for your kindness, you get rewarded with excellent health in the long term. I thank my lucky stars that I went vegan when I did. Good luck!
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Also, about the nighttime leg cramps: they are probably not related to diet. My husband was suffering badly from those, and we experimented with all kinds of diet changes, to no avail. In the end, we started doing calf stretches before going to bed every evening, and he hasn't had a leg cramp since. We stretch each leg for 30 seconds, and repeat for a total of four rounds (i.e., each calf gets stretched for a total of 2 minutes). The stretch I'm referring to is this one:
myhealth.alberta.ca
We do the stretch with the back leg straight; we don't bother with the version of the stretch where the back leg is bent. Also, we just do the stretches once a day. The important thing is to do it every day; otherwise, the cramps will come back. I sometimes get foot cramps, and massaging the arches of my feet with my fingers helps with those.
