Developing a thick skin

[beancounter]

It would be absurd of me to lecture women, people of color and LGBT people on how not to be offended.

The advice is colorless/gender-less/sexual orientation-less and applies to anyone who doesn't want to go through life feeling victimized/woe-is-me every-time someone expresses an opinion they disagree with.

 

[Spang]

Could you elaborate? Are you talking about this thread or other discussions on the board?

Generally speaking, people typically don't like to be told what to do. Ansciess didn't like being told to not post here, for example. But in this thread a certain group of people are being told to either grow thicker skin, to not be offended ("try simple deep breathing"), and/or to be more polite when responding to differing -- some might say bothersome -- opinions. Everyone should be entitled to their opinion, including people who have an opinion of others' opinions.

 

[Spang]

The advice is colorless/gender-less/sexual orientation-less and applies to anyone who doesn't want to go through life feeling victimized/woe-is-me every-time someone expresses an opinion they disagree with.

Humans are not colorless, genderless or sexual-orientation-less. To suggest otherwise is to ignore reality.

 

[Ansciess]

Generally speaking, people typically don't like to be told what to do. Ansciess didn't like being told to not post here, for example. But in this thread a certain group of people are being told to either grow thicker skin, to not be offended ("try simple deep breathing"), and/or to be more polite when responding to differing -- some might say bothersome -- opinions. Everyone should be entitled to their opinion, including people who have an opinion of others' opinions.

I don't think this thread is about people not being entitled to their opinions. But if you want to have a functional debate forum there probably needs to be some guidelines to hold people to, if people aren't able to monitor themselves without name calling and such. Because it doesn't lead to productive discussions. Are you wanting an unmoderated forum?

 

[beancounter]

Humans are not colorless, genderless or sexual-orientation-less. To suggest otherwise is to ignore reality.

I think you understood my point, and are are intentionally twisting the meaning.

 

[Ansciess]

Humans are not colorless, genderless or sexual-orientation-less. To suggest otherwise is to ignore reality.

Sure. But I'm a female (nevermind for the moment the other discriminated classes I belong to). So how can your advice or opinion ever be meaningful to me? Does my opinion always trump yours? And what if there are 2 females who disagree (especially on women's issues)? Do you go down the list and see who belongs to the most oppressed classes?

 

[mlp]

I don't think this thread is about people not being entitled to their opinions. But if you want to have a functional debate forum there probably needs to be some guidelines to hold people to, if people aren't able to monitor themselves without name calling and such. Because it doesn't lead to productive discussions. Are you wanting an unmoderated forum?

Agreed.

I'm not a fan of moderation myself; I think that adults should be able to act like adults. And, IMO, acting like an adult entails being able to recognize when one isn't acting in a mature manner, and trying to moderate one's behavior going forward.

OTOH, what is starting to happen here with some regularity is what I see in the comments to online articles - people just lobbing verbal bombs rather than actually engaging in discussion.

My preference would be for people to start moderating themselves. If that's not possible, perhaps this board's sole function should be for chitchat and recipes, and all serious discussion areas should be eliminated.

 

[Pickle Juice]

I think you understood my point, and are are intentionally twisting the meaning.

I think there's a lot of that going on. This whole thread is being deliberately twisted to make it look you are trying to tell other people what they should think and feel, when all it is is a set of alternative ways to react to something that hurts your feelings or offends you.

I was the one who came in here and said that was all very well and good, but that there are certain ways of reacting to others that are no longer going to be accepted here. None of the people engaging in them want to stand up and admit it, so I guess they are creating another problem where none exists, ie "quit telling us what to do".

Sorry kids, but on forums, just like in real life, there are codes of conduct you are required to abide by if you want to enjoy the privilege of belonging to the community. If reigning in your sarcasm, passive aggression, and need to insult, offend, or otherwise make personal attacks when you can't actually win the argument you've gotten yourself into is completely out of your control, you can certainly find yourself some free software and make your own forum where you can write your own rules and abuse any poor fool who happens upon it and has the bad luck to express an opinion of which you do not approve.

 

[Spang]

Sure. But I'm a female (nevermind for the moment the other discriminated classes I belong to). So how can your advice or opinion ever be meaningful to me? Does my opinion always trump yours?

To both questions: it depends on the topic.

And what if there are 2 females who disagree (especially on women's issues)? Do you go down the list and see who belongs to the most oppressed classes?

In regard to women's issues, my opinion is essentially meaningless.

 

[Pickle Juice]

Agreed.

I'm not a fan of moderation myself; I think that adults should be able to act like adults. And, IMO, acting like an adult entails being able to recognize when one isn't acting in a mature manner, and trying to moderate one's behavior going forward.

OTOH, what is starting to happen here with some regularity is what I see in the comments to online articles - people just lobbing verbal bombs rather than actually engaging in discussion.

My preference would be for people to start moderating themselves. If that's not possible, perhaps this board's sole function should be for chitchat and recipes, and all serious discussion areas should be eliminated.

I agree. I hope it doesn't come to that though.

 

[kibbleforlola]

Perhaps it's time for you to take your own advice. That's all I'm saying.

 

[Pickle Juice]

In regard to women's issues, my opinion is essentially meaningless.

I don't agree with this. I think it implies that any opinion that isn't founded on experience is invalid.

 

[mlp]

Perhaps it's time for you to take your own advice. That's all I'm saying.

It might be helpful if you would clarify to whom you are addressing this comment, and which advice you're referring to.

 

[kibbleforlola]

I'm addressing it to everyone. Including you and PJ, whom aren't above the law, as stoic as you are attempting to make yourselves look.

Also, In regards to your previous question (the one I never answered); yes, I do think I'm clever. Actually, scratch that, I know I'm clever.

 

[mlp]

I'm addressing it to everyone. Including you and PJ, whom aren't above the law, as stoic as you are attempting to make yourselves look.

Also, In regards to your previous question (the one I never answered); yes, I do think I'm clever. Actually, scratch that, I know I'm clever.

So you're addressing it to yourself and everyone else who has posted in this thread or anywhere on VV, i.e., to the entire membership?

I do suspect that most people who engage in passive aggressiveness think it's clever - most of us don't intentionally do things that we think are stupid. I generally think I'm being clever when I engage in sarcasm. When I think about it, though, I recognize that it isn't terribly productive.

There's another question you haven't answered, from the same post.

 

[Ansciess]

To both questions: it depends on the topic.

In regard to women's issues, my opinion is essentially meaningless.

I didn't get that you felt that way, because you wrote

a certain group of people are being told to either grow thicker skin, to not be offended ("try simple deep breathing"), and/or to be more polite when responding to differing -- some might say bothersome -- opinions.

the topic in which pretty much all of this has come up is so-called "women's issues," pretty exclusively with female participants. So your use of the word "bothersome" seems to be taking the side of one female against another on a "woman's issue." If you support one group, I guess I can accuse you of being sexist or insensitive towards the other, because who are you, a man, to have an opinion on a woman's issue against other women?

Let's be clear here: KFL accused ledboots of internalized misogyny (that she could help with). I was called anti woman. We're all female. If you're calling my opinion "bothersome" that got that accusation, then own it please.

 

[Freesia]

I just see this thread topic in general as having been very divisive and has got so many backs up. Perhaps that was not Beancounter's intention when he started the thread, but that is how it has come across to quite a few people. It is a very personal thing, emotions, how really do people expect people to react to being given this kind of advice?

 

[kibbleforlola]

Was the question "am I proud of myself?" (I'm not going to bother to go back and double check, but I'm pretty sure that was it).

The answer is "yes". Yes I'm pretty proud of myself. I don't generally engage in self loathing activities, or activities that would later make me loathe myself.

And yes, I do censor myself. For instance, I thought of at least ten pithy punches I could have included in this post, but I refrained.

 

[Ansciess]

Well I think everyone could take the advice and learn to phrase things better or more politely. I definitely can too, and sometimes in retrospect I don't like the way that I posted. Not the content, which I generally stand behind, but the style which can sometimes be unhelpful.

I don't see problems with content in the forum. I don't mind disagreement. But I see styles of fighting (sometimes my own) that are really unproductive for a debate forum.

 

[mlp]

I just see this thread topic in general as having been very divisive and has got so many backs up. Perhaps that was not Beancounter's intention when he started the thread, but that is how it has come across to quite a few people. It is a very personal thing, emotions, how really do people expect people to react to being given this kind of advice?

I don't think the problem is with this thread, which I think was started to address the divisiveness that has cropped up in so many threads. IOW, the problems already existed - the point of this thread was to address them rather than continuing to percolate everywhere.