What can we do to retain and engage members?

[Dedalus]

To keep on topic - why was VB so negative and how can we avoid going the same way?

Why did it feel so cliquey, and how can we avoid that?

If we have a criticism I think we should explore why it happened, to help VV move forward instead of this becoming an anti-VB thread

It felt cliquey because there were posts between members that knew each other so well that they could have whole conversations in a public forum without anyone else having a clue what they were talking about. (That's probably a bad example - I'm just drawing on faded memory.)

There was A LOT of piling on too. Mean-spirited piling on. Perhaps those posters would argue that they were not being mean-spirited - but this IS the internet and as we all know - it is easy to take things out of context. I'm not saying we should all walk on eggshells - nobody wants to do that. But if you expect everybody to interpret your correct intentions - you really have to be clear. There was a fair amount of outright venom thrown around as well; in tone and dialect.

It seemed like there were simply members on VB who openly did not like each other - and consequently when each of them were in the same thread - there was a continual back and forth - as if they were sparring. This invited others to join in and take a respective side - and there you have it - a virtual forum mosh-pit. I think if you could run a report of the people who posted the 'eating popcorn' emoticon you would find it showing up in quite a few threads.

I get it - there is a certain appeal to that kind of rhetorical jousting. I got caught up in it too, by all means - I'm not innocent on that front. But it's tiring and in the grand scheme of things - a waste of good energy.

 

[Lord Snot]

Insightful post. Some of that is probably down to the size of the board. At VV we all want more people to talk to and interact with so we are pleased when someone joins, but on VB people had enough interaction that they didn't need to make newbies feel welcome. I didn't like the in-jokes that took threads off-topic, like the stupid "I love lamp" rubbish that must have alienated newbies or occasional posters. There were some long term members who seemed to like the attention and were happy to banter back and forth for pages on subjects nothing to do with the thread. Over-moderation where anything slightly off-topic is removed is also a board killer, but there needs to be lines drawn about how much off-topicness is okay. I hope at VV the consideration would be "will these posts alienate people who aren't in on the joke?" when deciding if something needs to be stopped.

I don't know what can be done about perceived pile ons. I think if you put an opinion out there, especially one you know is controversial, you have to expect the fall out. Many of us on both sites share the same opinions on hot topics, not a lot we can do about that either. All people can do is remember to disagree politely and argue with the post, not the poster. I don't remember ever feeling piled on, perhaps someone who has experienced it can suggest what could practically be done to stop it. It's not like you can have a rule saying 'don't disagree with someone if X number of people have already disagreed'!

EDIT: I realised that isn't quite true, I was piled on recently on a different board. It was because I posted about veganism and they were defensive omnis. Two replied to me with anti-veg stuff and then their friends quoted them and put thumbs up smileys or made snide remarks about me. It was a horrible feeling, but there was nothing to be done but either shut up about veganism or leave the board. It was clear I wasn't going to fit in there because I don't want to be around people like that. The mods could have stepped in and chastised them or deleted the insulting posts, but I still would have known that the longest-term members were cliquey and nasty. It was just a case of bad fit.

 

[Nightshade]

I can see both sides of the Like button issue. I'm a stereotypical old fart who isn't on Facebook (/gasp!) so 'liking' posts is kind of an alien concept to me . Apologies to people whose posts I HAVE liked but didn't click the button. :\

To keep on topic - why was VB so negative and how can we avoid going the same way?

Why did it feel so cliquey, and how can we avoid that?

If we have a criticism I think we should explore why it happened, to help VV move forward instead of this becoming an anti-VB thread



Ha don't apologise. There's nothing wrong with it, but on this forum people generally "This!" and then go on to add more, like you did, instead of just typing the one word which clutters up threads.

In the short time I was on VB, and this was several years ago, there were some alpha posters who seemed to pretty much dominate every aspect of discussion. They and their cliques were pretty exclusive and, if you had the temerity to challenge the status quo, you got smacked back into your place in short order. Either that or they simply ignored you. I noticed I fell more into the completely ignore category and, well, there's really no point in belonging to a community that you're invisible to. I've been a vegan for a fairly long time and I would like to think I have some insights and some perspectives on this life that other people may not. Whether or not my contributions are of any value is, of course, up to the reader, but I'd like to occasionally feel that I'm not just talking into the vacuum of space.

 

[Lord Snot]

Being ignored is horrible. I joined a forum this week and posted in their 'chat' thread, I was completely ignored. They just talked around me as if I wasn't there, and it made me really reluctant to go back. I'm really warming to the idea of having people whose job it is to make sure newbies aren't ignored or treated badly - if Karl or the mods are reading, could they give an opinion on that?

 

[Nightshade]

Being ignored is horrible. I joined a forum this week and posted in their 'chat' thread, I was completely ignored. They just talked around me as if I wasn't there, and it made me really reluctant to go back. I'm really warming to the idea of having people whose job it is to make sure newbies aren't ignored or treated badly - if Karl or the mods are reading, could they give an opinion on that?

I do like that idea. What happens though when people grow out of their newbie status and have to navigate the social waters on their own? How do we ensure, as a community, that posters can continue to occasionally get recognition? Obviously not every comment needs a response but when that happens cumulatively over a period of time it becomes more and more off putting.

 

[Alice-Bee]

Insightful post. Some of that is probably down to the size of the board. At VV we all want more people to talk to and interact with so we are pleased when someone joins, but on VB people had enough interaction that they didn't need to make newbies feel welcome. I didn't like the in-jokes that took threads off-topic, like the stupid "I love lamp" rubbish that must have alienated newbies or occasional posters. There were some long term members who seemed to like the attention and were happy to banter back and forth for pages on subjects nothing to do with the thread. Over-moderation where anything slightly off-topic is removed is also a board killer, but there needs to be lines drawn about how much off-topicness is okay. I hope at VV the consideration would be "will these posts alienate people who aren't in on the joke?" when deciding if something needs to be stopped.

I don't know what can be done about perceived pile ons. I think if you put an opinion out there, especially one you know is controversial, you have to expect the fall out. Many of us on both sites share the same opinions on hot topics, not a lot we can do about that either. All people can do is remember to disagree politely and argue with the post, not the poster. I don't remember ever feeling piled on, perhaps someone who has experienced it can suggest what could practically be done to stop it. It's not like you can have a rule saying 'don't disagree with someone if X number of people have already disagreed'!

EDIT: I realised that isn't quite true, I was piled on recently on a different board. It was because I posted about veganism and they were defensive omnis. Two replied to me with anti-veg stuff and then their friends quoted them and put thumbs up smileys or made snide remarks about me. It was a horrible feeling, but there was nothing to be done but either shut up about veganism or leave the board. It was clear I wasn't going to fit in there because I don't want to be around people like that. The mods could have stepped in and chastised them or deleted the insulting posts, but I still would have known that the longest-term members were cliquey and nasty. It was just a case of bad fit.

On the subject of ignoring...I agree the easiest way to blend into a new board is join chat threads. I find it very rude when people dont bother reading a few posts up and just post their 'thought of the day' or whatever. Sometime backreading isnt possible if youve been awaya few days but it(to me) seems awfully ignorant if you notice a bunch of people posting hug icons directed at one member but dont even bother to post and just go right on with your post. You may aswell be talking to yourself.

 

[beancounter]

To keep on topic
- why was VB so negative and how can we avoid going the same way?
Why did it feel so cliquey, and how can we avoid that?

IMO, a lot of the negativity had to do with the pimp. People came to view such behavior as acceptable (he was not banned until many years later), thus giving his behavior de-facto approval. This type of chest thumping, dick waving antics encourged more people to use the anonymity of the internet to perpetuate that behavior, until it became a permanent part of the culture.

We prevent it by not allowing people who intentionally **** on others to stick around.

I think it felt cliquey to some because the older members had a shared history that newer members didn't.
It's prevented by being welcoming to everyone.

And we should also try not to make people feel unwelcome. For, example, if you have an issue with someone, just quietly put them on ignore, don't publically tell them that you're going to. Such actions encourage both negativity and cliqueness.

 

[Alice-Bee]

I fear we may be guilty of dragging VB here too much.
posting things about the ex owner and certain colourful members we all had problems with.

 

[Lord Snot]

I do like that idea. What happens though when people grow out of their newbie status and have to navigate the social waters on their own? How do we ensure, as a community, that posters can continue to occasionally get recognition? Obviously not every comment needs a response but when that happens cumulatively over a period of time it becomes more and more off putting.

I don't know. I think that would probably be a case of bad fit like I talked about in my long post. If someone just doesn't fit in or is kind of out-of-tune with the tone of the board then people aren't going to respond to their posts or 'like' them. I don't think that necessarily indicates a problem with the board, just a personality clash. Of course it can also be because there are cliques who won't let anybody else in but I think VV has a while to go before that could become an issue.

On the subject of ignoring...I agree the easiest way to blend into a new board is join chat threads. I find it very rude when people dont bother reading a few posts up and just post their 'thought of the day' or whatever. Sometime backreading isnt possible if youve been awaya few days but it(to me) seems awfully ignorant if you notice a bunch of people posting hug icons directed at one member but dont even bother to post and just go right on with your post. You may aswell be talking to yourself.

We've got a great thing going with the Coffee House, especially with starting a new thread every day and having the original post that really encourages people to chime in. I'm with you, I always look for a chat thread on a new board and post there to get a feel of the forum. If I'm ignored I'll probably never go back, or I'll just use the board when I want information on the specialist topic. Perhaps there should be one or two regular chatters who are appointed to respond to new people until they are getting enough attention from others too? It would have to be subtle, you don't want it to feel artificial.

 

[beancounter]

On the subject of ignoring...I agree the easiest way to blend into a new board is join chat threads. .

The chat board was the one place on the "other board" that I, a long time member felt excluded. I tried several times to start conversations, and was always ignored. i don't blame them though. A real world equivelent would be like if you were at a party and approached a group of people chating away. Just jumping in to the middle of the conversation would be disruptive.

 

[Lord Snot]

The chat board was the one place on the "other board "that I, a long time member felt excluded. I tried several times to start conversations, and was always ignored. i don't blame them though. A real world equivelent would be like if you were at a party and approached a group of people chating away. Just jumping in to the middle of the conversation would be disruptive.

Do you feel like that with the Coffee House?

 

[Alice-Bee]

I would welcome anyone to the chat thread but its a case of people being online at the right time...

 

[Alice-Bee]

The chat board was the one place on the "other board "that I, a long time member felt excluded. I tried several times to start conversations, and was always ignored. i don't blame them though. A real world equivelent would be like if you were at a party and approached a group of people chating away. Just jumping in to the middle of the conversation would be disruptive.

The problem online is that people sometimes treat some Chat Threads like facebook...posting status like comments about their day...not saying 'Hey...' to other members etc.

 

[Lord Snot]

Should there be a steward for the introductions forum?

 

[beancounter]

Do you feel like that with the Coffee House?

No.

 

[Lord Snot]

No.

Woohoo

 

[beancounter]

The problem online is that people sometimes treat some Chat Threads like facebook...posting status like comments about their day...not saying 'Hey...' to other members etc.

Yea, I've noticed that a lot. I don't want to make anyone feel bad - to each their own after all, but IMO, posting "I just woke up and I'm drinking my morning coffee" just doesn't add value to the flow of conversation here.

 

[beancounter]

Should there be a steward for the introductions forum?

I don't think that's necessary yet. Everyone who introduces themselves here get's a big welcome.

 

[Alice-Bee]

Yea, I've noticed that a lot. I don't want to make anyone feel bad - to each their own after all, but IMO, posting "I just woke up and I'm drinking my morning coffee" just doesn't add value to the flow of conversation here.

Im probably a little guilty of that myself but some people do it all.the.time.

 

[Lord Snot]

Let's not start making our current members feel unwelcome!