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WTF!! Just how many likes do you owe me, that you've been greedily holding back!?!?
What can we do to retain and engage members?
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WTF!! Just how many likes do you owe me, that you've been greedily holding back!?!?
Sorry Mrs Snot
Lord Snot
Parsley Provider
RabbitLuvr
I love rabbits.
Disclaimer: I started writing this like an hour ago and kept getting interrupted so I don't know if this is still even relevant but I'll post it anyway!
I don't mind the sometimes disjointed nature of the Coffee House. People can jump in and out as they have the time/inclination. If there were some rule that a post had to always be joining the conversation going on at that time, I think it would feel more clique-y.
As for cliques, I think we need to recognize that cliques will naturally develop between people who might get on well with each other, and it's not always a bad thing. As long as we are aware that this will happen, we can be aware that we need to try to interact with new people who might join.
Trying to stop cliques altogether will push people away, and make people feel like they're being punished for making friends. I think it's better to be aware that it will happen and try to push ourselves (as a collective) to work with it.
Over at The Other Board, I didn't feel welcome for a long time. I didn't feel UNwelcome, but definitely not part of the group. I stuck around anyway, and eventually a few others joined and I got on smashingly with them. All of a sudden, being there was FUN and exciting and I looked forward to logging on every day.
Then some things happened and people were complaining about "cliques" and Official Warnings were issued, and there was a very stern post about Codes of Conduct or whatever. It didn't really help anything, though. We just found someplace else to hang out. Which I think was the preferred solution for some there, though it left some people puzzled as to why one clique was being disciplined so harshly, when another was clearly left to run amok. (Disclaimer #2, I'm speaking only as to how I was feeling about that situation, not on behalf of anyone else.)
I've made new friends here now and feel closer to people I didn't necessarily get on with Over There, and some of it is definitely the overall atmosphere, but at some point we will be the seasoned veterans here, and thus perceived as a clique by new members, however unwittingly.
I think there should be an understanding about what level of off-topicness, etc, is allowable and where the line is. There was already a thread here asking what people expect/want from moderation, and I think it's great that there is a dialog and willingness to discuss that.
I really like the "like" system here. I agree with LS that it reduces the number of useless posts that get done just to indicate that you agree with someone or that you read their post. I'm on another board that allows both "up" votes (likes) and "down" votes (both of which can be given anonymously). I'm glad we don't have dislikes here!
I do like the idea of a "welcoming committee" or welcoming steward, to help guide new members.
I think something that might not be helping to attract new members are the "members only" areas that are hidden to guests. The casual observer could run across VV in a search, read the relevant thread(s) then go on their way, not realizing that there is more community here than they can see. I'm not sure how to rectify that while still maintaining the level of comfort that there is in having the "members only" areas. I do REALLY like that the random chat thread, etc, isn't visible for all of creation to see, and I think there is enormous value in having the specific health threads by approval only.
I haven't logged out lately, so I'm no longer certain which sections are visible to non-members.
I don't mind the sometimes disjointed nature of the Coffee House. People can jump in and out as they have the time/inclination. If there were some rule that a post had to always be joining the conversation going on at that time, I think it would feel more clique-y.
As for cliques, I think we need to recognize that cliques will naturally develop between people who might get on well with each other, and it's not always a bad thing. As long as we are aware that this will happen, we can be aware that we need to try to interact with new people who might join.
Trying to stop cliques altogether will push people away, and make people feel like they're being punished for making friends. I think it's better to be aware that it will happen and try to push ourselves (as a collective) to work with it.
Over at The Other Board, I didn't feel welcome for a long time. I didn't feel UNwelcome, but definitely not part of the group. I stuck around anyway, and eventually a few others joined and I got on smashingly with them. All of a sudden, being there was FUN and exciting and I looked forward to logging on every day.
Then some things happened and people were complaining about "cliques" and Official Warnings were issued, and there was a very stern post about Codes of Conduct or whatever. It didn't really help anything, though. We just found someplace else to hang out. Which I think was the preferred solution for some there, though it left some people puzzled as to why one clique was being disciplined so harshly, when another was clearly left to run amok. (Disclaimer #2, I'm speaking only as to how I was feeling about that situation, not on behalf of anyone else.)
I've made new friends here now and feel closer to people I didn't necessarily get on with Over There, and some of it is definitely the overall atmosphere, but at some point we will be the seasoned veterans here, and thus perceived as a clique by new members, however unwittingly.
I think there should be an understanding about what level of off-topicness, etc, is allowable and where the line is. There was already a thread here asking what people expect/want from moderation, and I think it's great that there is a dialog and willingness to discuss that.
I really like the "like" system here. I agree with LS that it reduces the number of useless posts that get done just to indicate that you agree with someone or that you read their post. I'm on another board that allows both "up" votes (likes) and "down" votes (both of which can be given anonymously). I'm glad we don't have dislikes here!
I do like the idea of a "welcoming committee" or welcoming steward, to help guide new members.
I think something that might not be helping to attract new members are the "members only" areas that are hidden to guests. The casual observer could run across VV in a search, read the relevant thread(s) then go on their way, not realizing that there is more community here than they can see. I'm not sure how to rectify that while still maintaining the level of comfort that there is in having the "members only" areas. I do REALLY like that the random chat thread, etc, isn't visible for all of creation to see, and I think there is enormous value in having the specific health threads by approval only.
I haven't logged out lately, so I'm no longer certain which sections are visible to non-members.
RabbitLuvr
I love rabbits.
I think that's a good thing, and I'm also glad that total post count is hidden. It keeps it from turning into some weird competition. I would think that it would also make new members feel more on parity with old members.
This could be because someone may not know how to jump in if the conversation isn't something they know anything about. I thought that was what the **** thread was all about...saying everything and anything that you wanted. I didn't think it was supposed to be a thread where you actually had to carry on a conversation with someone. As an "older" member (in years), it can be very daunting to try and follow a conversation that's going on between 3-4 young'uns, lol. There are, seriously, some times when I have no clue what's going on and have no input, particularly if it's in regard to today's music or some other topic that is specific to the younger generation. Plus, some people are shy and not good at small talk. So maybe a remedy to this could be posting a "
I'm drinking my morning coffee"...that way someone can at least post a back and acknowledge the poster.Personally, I don't think we should set too many rules about how people should act. It might make members feel uncomfortable or awkward. I think having the "like" button is very helpful. Maybe we can all try to just be a little more aware and considerate, especially to newbies. I actually feel like we've been doing a pretty good job so far. It feels very comfortable and warm here. I was ignored way more over "there" than I am here. And with that, may I say thank you to all the members who humor me and "like" my posts...keep up the good work, lol.
Nightshade
Get off my lawn!
WTF!! Just how many likes do you owe me, that you've been greedily holding back!?!?
Um...probably a good few.I think RabbitLuvr and KLS both make good points. Obviously people are going to bond and form cliques which, in and of itself, isn't necessarily a bad thing. I think the problem with cliques comes when they're exclusive to those select members or when said clique does the pile up on any unsuspecting member that pisses one of them off. I saw that on the other board more times than I want to think about.
I also agree that you can't, nor do you want to, be too controlling about how people should behave without adversely affecting the atmosphere. That, to me, falls into the over moderation category which can be a forum killer if it's applied too stringently.
So far I haven't noticed any issues here like I did in the other place. The atmosphere is very pleasant and, so far, pretty inclusive. Despite that, I wouldn't mind seeing newbie shepherds just to help acclimate new members and ensure that they're more than just a number on the member roster. My only concern is the dearth of discussion beyond a few social threads. I think people looking for information on veg*nism or who are thinking about getting more involved in animal activism are going to want to see more on-topic, active threads.
I like having so many Stewards here because they not only moderate their little corner of the forum but are responsible for keeping their individual sub-forums active and engaging... participating in discussions, starting new threads, helping newbies, maintaining a positive atmosphere. I assumed that was the idea anyway? I think a New to Vegetarianism forum with its own Steward is a great idea.
I agree with this.
I sometimes feel a little left out on forums because I'm not on Facebook, but obviously I could join up if I wanted. I post on a dog forum and I'm used to my posts being generally ignored as people have already formed groups, but nobody has been hostile towards me.
I think the mods/stewards or the rest of us should make sure that every thread (apart from recipe threads) has at least one reply, especially if it is a new person starting the thread.
SummerRain
I dreamed that God would be forgiving.
Hmm I have been reading this post with interest and the only things I can think to say are... :
1. The only way I ever notice "cliquishness" is by being ignored. I don't notice if the same people agree with each other, or seem friendly together, or even "Jump on" other members because I don't really pay that much attention. But what I do always notice is if I join a chatty thread and get ignored, and that's something I noticed a lot on other forums, and I think it would be nice if we made a conscious effort not to do that.
2. I agree that people post random things in chat threads because they haven't followed the whole long conversation, or don't have anything to add to it, but want to be involved. I don't have a problem with that, and that responding to it is a lot more inclusive (i.e.: just saying "hi!" or "yeah I love coffee too!" or "I prefer tea!") than saying you shouldn't do it.
3. I think the LIKE button helps a lot in this respect, you can acknowledge posts without having to post yourself.
4. I think this is the main point really... we're all talking about inclusiveness and not being cliquey... but we also are all one big clique. In particular because most of us know each other from another vegetarian forum, and we refer to it a lot - usually quite ambiguously - and to members there that aren't here, things that happen there, and things that have happened in the past there. I think if I was new I'd have no clue what people were talking about half the time, what other forum? what's VB? who is X? and probably think this wasn't what I was looking for. I don't know if it's putting people off or not, but I think it would put me off. I don't know what the solution is... I like the buddy idea a lot, and I think it might help if we were less ambiguous when talking about the other vegetarian forum (VB) - or if we just talked about forums in general instead? I don't know but it seems like it's worth bringing up because I think it could leave people feeling left out.
5. Also, as far as interesting veg*an discussions go... maybe we could have typical "hot topic" threads, and typical new people question threads, to start a big discussion about things that new people are probably wanting to ask. Even things we might be a bit tired of discussing because a lot of us have been on veg*an forums before. Things like, is honey vegan? do you wear leather? why is wool cruel? do plants feel? would you eat meat grown in a lab? what about if I raise my own chickens, is that vegan, is it cruel? Do you use medication that's been tested on animals (I know we have that one at the moment! )? Do you use vegan condoms/tampons? Do you eat gelatin? What about using horse manure on crops? ... I think these are questions you see a lot on vegetarian forums, because they're common questions everybody wants to know, but we don't have many of them because lots of us have been on other vegetarian forums and have thought about it before. But if we started the threads anyway, and everybody said what they thought
a) people searching for these questions will find them on here and bring them over
b) new people will be interested in reading them, and contributing to them, and so I think they're more like the kind of things new people want to read
c) the reason a lot of people have seen them lots before, is because it's what people are interested in knowing, so it makes sense to start these kinds of threads on here too
... that's really long sorry, I sorta saved them up for one big post!
1. The only way I ever notice "cliquishness" is by being ignored. I don't notice if the same people agree with each other, or seem friendly together, or even "Jump on" other members because I don't really pay that much attention. But what I do always notice is if I join a chatty thread and get ignored, and that's something I noticed a lot on other forums, and I think it would be nice if we made a conscious effort not to do that.
2. I agree that people post random things in chat threads because they haven't followed the whole long conversation, or don't have anything to add to it, but want to be involved. I don't have a problem with that, and that responding to it is a lot more inclusive (i.e.: just saying "hi!" or "yeah I love coffee too!" or "I prefer tea!") than saying you shouldn't do it.
3. I think the LIKE button helps a lot in this respect, you can acknowledge posts without having to post yourself.
4. I think this is the main point really... we're all talking about inclusiveness and not being cliquey... but we also are all one big clique. In particular because most of us know each other from another vegetarian forum, and we refer to it a lot - usually quite ambiguously - and to members there that aren't here, things that happen there, and things that have happened in the past there. I think if I was new I'd have no clue what people were talking about half the time, what other forum? what's VB? who is X? and probably think this wasn't what I was looking for. I don't know if it's putting people off or not, but I think it would put me off. I don't know what the solution is... I like the buddy idea a lot, and I think it might help if we were less ambiguous when talking about the other vegetarian forum (VB) - or if we just talked about forums in general instead? I don't know but it seems like it's worth bringing up because I think it could leave people feeling left out.
5. Also, as far as interesting veg*an discussions go... maybe we could have typical "hot topic" threads, and typical new people question threads, to start a big discussion about things that new people are probably wanting to ask. Even things we might be a bit tired of discussing because a lot of us have been on veg*an forums before. Things like, is honey vegan? do you wear leather? why is wool cruel? do plants feel? would you eat meat grown in a lab? what about if I raise my own chickens, is that vegan, is it cruel? Do you use medication that's been tested on animals (I know we have that one at the moment!
)? Do you use vegan condoms/tampons? Do you eat gelatin? What about using horse manure on crops? ... I think these are questions you see a lot on vegetarian forums, because they're common questions everybody wants to know, but we don't have many of them because lots of us have been on other vegetarian forums and have thought about it before. But if we started the threads anyway, and everybody said what they thoughta) people searching for these questions will find them on here and bring them over
b) new people will be interested in reading them, and contributing to them, and so I think they're more like the kind of things new people want to read
c) the reason a lot of people have seen them lots before, is because it's what people are interested in knowing, so it makes sense to start these kinds of threads on here too
... that's really long sorry, I sorta saved them up for one big post!
SummerRain
I dreamed that God would be forgiving.
Oh and another thought, I don't know if this is a bit clinical... but maybe if we had polls in the introductions area to ask things like, how did you find VV, what are you looking for on VV, what kind of threads are you interested in, etc... and we could see what kinds of things new people are interested in too, and use the feedback to improve/come up with ideas for keeping people? I don't know maybe it's the physicist in me wanting an experiment but.... kinda makes sense to ask 'em instead of guessing what people want and don't want? Maybe that's a bad idea I just thought of it when doing the washing up so...
ledboots
Peace
I agree. the hot topic sounds like a great idea.
How about someone(a steward would be best) starts a new hot topic every week...or two weeks? I think we need more than one a month.
How about someone(a steward would be best) starts a new hot topic every week...or two weeks? I think we need more than one a month.
AeryFairy
Anachronism
Oh and another thought, I don't know if this is a bit clinical... but maybe if we had polls in the introductions area to ask things like, how did you find VV, what are you looking for on VV, what kind of threads are you interested in, etc... and we could see what kinds of things new people are interested in too, and use the feedback to improve/come up with ideas for keeping people? I don't know maybe it's the physicist in me wanting an experiment but.... kinda makes sense to ask 'em instead of guessing what people want and don't want? Maybe that's a bad idea I just thought of it when doing the washing up so...
I really like this idea! Maybe it could all be combined into a newbie survey or something? Stickied at the top of the introductions forum or something similar, with a set of questions people can answer to help us all improve the forums
Also, the hot topic idea is great! Maybe a steward could be appointed for welcoming newbies, gathering forum feedback, and starting a hot topic thread every couple of weeks from other members' suggestions (I don't think it's fair to ask one person to come up with every single idea, but at the same time, one person starting each one would give it a little more structure)
I also like the idea of a Hot Topic.
I also have to agree with SR; we really are one big clique !
I also have to agree with SR; we really are one big clique !
thefadedone
Needs a life
- Joined
- Jun 2, 2012
- Reaction score
- 4,829
This is how I feel as well. I think VB would've benefited from this as well. I would often report posts or bring certain things to mod's attention that they were clueless about. It's not because they weren't doing an efficient job, it's because there were only a handful of mods that were "active" and they often didn't venture into certain forums so they had no idea what was going on in them. Having a Stewards/Mods for each forum seems to eliminate that problem.
AeryFairy
Anachronism
Also, as a mod, it's good to know who's keeping an eye on what, and that every thread is (hopefully) being read by at least one of us! Members should still continue to report things, though, if they feel something should be brought to our attention
5. Also, as far as interesting veg*an discussions go... maybe we could have typical "hot topic" threads, and typical new people question threads, to start a big discussion about things that new people are probably wanting to ask. Even things we might be a bit tired of discussing because a lot of us have been on veg*an forums before. Things like, is honey vegan? do you wear leather? why is wool cruel? do plants feel? would you eat meat grown in a lab? what about if I raise my own chickens, is that vegan, is it cruel? Do you use medication that's been tested on animals (I know we have that one at the moment!
a) people searching for these questions will find them on here and bring them over
b) new people will be interested in reading them, and contributing to them, and so I think they're more like the kind of things new people want to read
c) the reason a lot of people have seen them lots before, is because it's what people are interested in knowing, so it makes sense to start these kinds of threads on here too
I think that is a great idea. I don't think this should influence whether we have hot topics like that but I have known at least three vegans that said they joined VB to chat but read the infamous honey thread and left in disgust. I know quite a few vegans don't want to be on forums with vegetarians though so maybe they wouldn't be interested in a mixed forum anyway.
(What are vegan tampons by the way?
)
SummerRain
I dreamed that God would be forgiving.
(What are vegan tampons by the way?
Don't worry they don't put cheese in them or anything...! People often ask if tampons are vegan if the company test on animals, if there are alternatives, if the tampons are test on animals themselves, and if there are companies that make tampons that aren't tested on animals... so that's what I meant.
