"Why do vegans eat fake meat?"

[Mischief]

I never claimed that I've never acted in a snotty and arrogant manner. As a matter of fact, my worst years were before the Internet, where I dissed people face to face without hiding behind the mothers' skirt of online anonymity. I like to believe I've chilled a bit since then, but at least I admit it.

Whether or not you admit an ongoing fault doesn't make calling others out on the same fault any less or more ironic/hypocritical.

It's not as though the admission of an ongoing fault is a get out of jail free card for ongoing behavior. God knows, most of us would find it convenient if it were.

Some, however, are still in denial.

Anyone in particular you'd like to name, or do you prefer the passive aggressive approach?

Boy, do I have to qualify everything? Of course uncontrollable genetic factors play into the equation. But you stand a better chance of maintaining the best health for your age by eating healthy. Many foods, like processed meats, for example increase your risks for developing unfavorable health conditions as you age. Go ahead and deny that...

How much processed meat substitutes do you think people on here are eating?! Considering the price of those foods, I imagine they make up a relatively small percentage of everyone's diet.

I have never engaged in a pile on on VV of a new member unless they were clearly an omni. The percentage who stick around is obviously low to begin with, so why make an effort to decrease that percentage further?

I didn't say you had "engaged in a pile on ...of a new member."

I do think, however, that non-new members don't deserve any lesser degree of regard/courtesy than new members. Do you?

And, if your concern is a pragmatic one of maintaining membership numbers, then I would posit that you should actually be nicer to "proven" members than ones who, in all likelihood, won't stick around anyway. (To be clear, that's not my position - I don't think anyone is entitled to "better" treatment because of longevity or lack thereof.)

Just as a matter of curiosity - exactly where do you think the "pile on" occurred? My post? Silva's? Forty Two's? We all made different points. How is that a "pile on"? What's the "permissible" number of responses to a post?

 

[beancounter]

Whether or not you admit an ongoing fault doesn't make calling others out on the same fault any less or more ironic/hypocritical.

It's not as though the admission of an ongoing fault is a get out of jail free card for ongoing behavior. God knows, most of us would find it convenient if it were.

Ongoing? Show me a post where I was snotty or arrogant re: my views on veganism. If you think my comments in this thread were an example, I'd say that's a pretty low bar, and just a case of sour grapes.

Anyone in particular you'd like to name, or do you prefer the passive aggressive approach?

Felling guilty?

And, if your concern is a pragmatic one of maintaining membership numbers, then I would posit that you should actually be nicer to "proven" members than ones who, in all likelihood, won't stick around anyway.

Nicer to, or more agreeable? That's an important distinction. I have no interest in winning a popularity contest, nor to add one more echo to an echo chamber. Some people will follow the party line to the letter to win approval. I'm not one of those people.

 

[Mischief]

Show me a post where I was snotty or arrogant re: my views on veganism. If you think my comments in this thread were an example, I'd say that's a pretty low bar, and just a case of sour grapes.

Were we limiting it to views on veganism? If we are, then I'm not sure what your complaint is about, because there's one post in this thread about which that could be said, and it's not any of those that you describe as a "pile on." (BTW, still waiting to hear from you exactly where that "pile on" started.)

Felling guilty?

About "being in denial" about being snotty or arrogant? No, because when I'm snotty or arrogant, I am that way intentionally. Sometimes I realize I've came across that way without intending to, and in that case I apologize.

I do feel guilty about some of the things I said to one particular member; I think there was some glitch in thinking processes that he simply couldn't help. But I'm not in denial about my part, and so I don't feel guilty about being in denial, just about my underlying actions.

Nicer to, or more agreeable? That's an important distinction. I have no interest in winning a popularity contest, nor to add one more echo to an echo chamber. Some people will follow the party line to the letter to win approval. I'm not one of those people.

I used the word "nicer" quite intentionally.

 

[silva]

No one here needs to feel badly for eating processed foods, as long it's not meat. I'm not going to act embarrassed about eating processed foods. People who posteur about how much they obsess about what they perceive as healthy are no better than those who deride people over their appearance.
We're a forum of vegetarians and vegans of all kinds and if you don't like processed foods, that's fine, but just as I wouldn't think to be critical of those who I might think unduly obsessive, as well as wrong on some thinking, no one should criticize those who like processed foods.
My great grandfather lived to 98, rolled his own cigarettes, drank, ate animals head to hoove. He worked hard and was active till he died, and never saw the inside of hospital.

 

[beancounter]

No one here needs to feel badly for eating processed foods, as long it's not meat. I'm not going to act embarrassed about eating processed foods. People who posteur about how much they obsess about what they perceive as healthy are no better than those who deride people over their appearance.
We're a forum of vegetarians and vegans of all kinds and if you don't like processed foods, that's fine, but just as I wouldn't think to be critical of those who I might think unduly obsessive, as well as wrong on some thinking, no one should criticize those who like processed foods.
My great grandfather lived to 98, rolled his own cigarettes, drank, ate animals head to hoove. He worked hard and was active till he died, and never saw the inside of hospital.

Not trying to make anyone feel bad or embarrassed. I'm simply pointing out a reality that fake meats are not the healthiest option. (and an relatively expensive option, at that). And IMHO, people shouldn't sweep health conscience behaviors under the rug, in an effort to make a positive impact in the AR movement.

 

[beancounter]

I used the word "nicer" quite intentionally.

Yea, we could fill a whole new thread discussing this. I don't go out of my way to be intentionally mean to people (unless they start swinging first).

Inevitably, people will get hurt or offended, and it's impossible to account for everyone's sensitively levels without constantly waking on eggshells. For example, it's impossible to know if someone is having IRL issues which make them more sensitive. And then there are some who will be offended at a drop of a hat because a particular issue is near and dear to them.etc, etc.

If you want good examples of people who intentionally make an effort/go out of their way to be as mean and offensive as possible, just review the posting history of the "other board". I'm not in their league by any stretch of the imagination.

BTW, you will never leave. You love a good argument.

 

[Mischief]

BTW, you will never leave. You love a good argument.

Yeah, it's a weakness of mine.

 

[FortyTwo]

I mean... when going into a thread where people are talking about their favorite fake meats and the psychological/taste reasons why they enjoy them and implying they're better for making different decisions on a personal level with a lot of assumptions about why people make the lifestyle choices they do, someone can and should probably expect decent backlash. I don't really consider that a pile-on.

I'd say more but this is basically just rehashing old stuff in more ways than one. Both in the interactions between individual members, and in the content of the thread itself.

 

[silva]

It's to the point where I'd like to have a 'plant based for health' forum to limit snippy criticism of veg'ns food choices. It's quite rampant on the other one, even a thread asking about vegan soda pop gets quips about what an unhealthy choice it is, and why would anyone want that? Well, because they're vegan and like pop, and many soda pops are vegan. Would it be ok for someone to respond to a question about beer with "you shoudn't drink, it's the devils brew"
The worst part of this "healthy wfpb" movement that's been sparked by What the Health is how many people are taking it verbatim. An egg a day does more harm than smoking a pack of cigarettes? Meat and dairy cause diabetes, not the sugar! There's no real consensus on what actually defines 'wfpb'. I've defended people asking for meat subs from others telling them how they shouldn't eat them only to find those same people listing processed stuff as what they had to eat- saying 'how rarely they eat them'. Where's the line? then you get the all raw folks saying it's bad to cook things, and fruitarians telling you grains are killing you and shouldn't be consumed in any way.

If you're not allowed to be critical of lacto/ovo vegetarians in the vegetarian forum why is fine to dis the use of vegan products in the vegan forum?

 

[AllenH]

Some ingredients from fake meat are really not environmentally friendly.

 

[AllenH]

Definitely better than eating regular meat, but I'm just saying.

 

[AllenH]

Personally, I prefer tofu with spices, and chickpea burgers

 

[Clvegan]

I think if you ever lived non-vegan, you probably go used to the thought that meals are made with side dish and meat. I think it would be interesting to see whether those kids who grow up being vegetarian would eat these meat substitutes..

 

[Mischief]

I think if you ever lived non-vegan, you probably go used to the thought that meals are made with side dish and meat.

This is a good point. I think it's pretty ingrained in many cultures that there "needs" to be a main dish (even if it's not meat). It took me years to overcome that notion, and to consider a meal that has a number of vegetable dishes that have equal billing to be complete.

 

[silva]

Growing up I looked forward to meals that were separate things! We so often had casseroles, stews, 'goulash' type meals that were all together.
Now I still look forward to making meals that are separate things, although most are all mixed.
Really though- where do you draw the line at what you'd call "fake meat'? Is seitan fake meat? I think not- it's wheat. Processed foods like Beyond Burger are very much like meat--but there not really at all. I could see them being made even without the comparison.
Why wouldn't people raised veg eat these foods? They're not animals.
Many wfpb folks seem to think it's only natural and only vegan to eat foods without any additions or processing, but why think that about vegans when it's rarely true for any diet?
People eat what they eat for many reasons and it;s been a proven seller again and again. If we want people to stop killing animals for food I feel we need to cater to vegans all ways, not try and denigrate fast food places when they try and offer vegan things